<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-western">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Sorry to say but I really don't think
you are seeing the picture.<br>
<br>
I fail to see how dropping yearly fee's, increasing 'setup'
fee's will accomplish anything. Perhaps spend some time and do
the math out and put an actual outline with some numbers behind
it and then match that upto the required budget to operate RIPE.<br>
<br>
You specifically say this:<br>
<br>
"After the membership has approved the new plan via a majority
vote there will be an excess in money available due to the
higher setup fee. The price will be determined by availability."<br>
<br>
RIPE having an 'excess' of money, will simply mean that money is
returned to its members. The price is not determined by
availability of resources, it is determined primarily by the
operating costs of RIPE its self. <br>
<br>
Specifically lets look at the Articles of Association that
govern RIPE.<br>
<br>
<h3>Article 3 – The Association: Objective</h3>
<p>The objective of the Association is to perform activities for
the benefit of the Members, primarily activities that the
Members need to organize as a group. This object can be
sub-divided into the following activities:</p>
<ul>
<li>Registration Activities related to the role of the
Association as Regional Internet Registry;</li>
<li>Co-ordination Activities, including the support of the
stable operation of the Internet;</li>
<li>Administration Activities, including all regular reports
and administrative support as well as all other general
administrative tasks which cannot be attributed to a
specific activity;</li>
<li>New Activities, including all activities which are
necessary to react to the rapidly changing world of the
Internet; and to do all that is connected therewith or may
be conducive thereto, all this in the widest sense of the
word. <b>Making profit is not an object of the Association.</b></li>
</ul>
<br>
So if RIPE cannot make a profit, then it is impossible for it to
set fee's so high that would make any impact and thus limits the
whole game to a 21,000,000 million EUR bubble, which is TINY
compared to some of the power house IT companies budgets. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 09/16/2016 06:55 AM, Prager-IT e.U. wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADHTtzHN2L_gyNEYDbye2T2Z4qP4RDKyjgAPtCnjhjPJyjOxqg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Pearson <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:daniel@privatesystems.net" target="_blank">daniel@privatesystems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div lang="x-western"><span class="gmail-">
<div>On 09/16/2016 05:57 AM, Prager-IT e.U. wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>The plan I envision is quite simple, move
from the current Flatrate charging scheme to a
system that charges members an amount for the
resources they are using. This will ensure that
each and every RIPE NCC member will pay their
fair share.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Charge per allocated IPv4 address with a
linear system.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>price_per_ipv4 = required_budget /
amount_of_addresses_in_use</div>
<div>your_yearly_membership_fee =
amount_of_ipv4_you_use * price_per_ipv4</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>Did you happen to read my reply to the thread.
This is going to equate to almost no resources left as a
/22 will cost roughly 24 EUR per year. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I read everything said so far, to prevent this from
happening we also need to increase the setup fee as I
already outlined.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div lang="x-western"><span class="gmail-"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">This will also apply to Provider
Independent(PI) assignemnts, anycasting
assignments and Legacy Internet Resources
registered via a sponsoring Local Internet
Registry(LIR).</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>You're going to be hard pressed to charge Legacy
resource holders, BUT, even if you did, my above figure
of a /22 costing 24EUR would probably be cut down to 16
EUR or less</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If the resources are sponsored via a sponsoring Local
Internet Registry(LIR) I don't see why we should not be able
to charge the Legacy resource holders.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div lang="x-western"><span class="gmail-"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IPv6 PI assignments and IPv6 IXP assigments
will remain unchanged at 50,-- Euros per year.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>Moot point here since the number of IPV6
resources avail. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The goal is to provide a comprehensive plan for the
membership to vote on. The way I see this needs to be in
addressed as well in order for that to happen.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div lang="x-western"><span class="gmail-"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If we ever reach a point where IPv4 becomes
obsolete revert back to a Flatrate System as due
to the nature of IPv6 a Flatrate system is a
fair choice.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. Increase the Setup Fee to an amount that
reflects the current reality of the transfer
market, 6.000,-- Euros.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>Read the 2015 Budget, they collected slightly
over 5 Million EUR in setup fee's, which got dispersed
back to its members as a credit on next years bill,
increasing the setup fee will simply act to lower, even
further, the yearly cost. In 2015 Each LIR would have
received 'roughly' a 415 EUR credit on their bill... So
we might as well just not charge for IPv4 upto a /19 ,
and if you're going to up the setup fee's then we might
as well make that a free /18.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am well aware of the numbers. Under my plan there most
likely would never be any sum significant enough to
disperse.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div lang="x-western"><span class="gmail-"><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3. Introduce an Inter-RIR Transfer Fee for
resources that leave the RIPE Region so people
don't flee with their resources into a cheaper
Region, 3,-- Euros per IPv4 address.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>If you do this, then it's a two way street. Not
to mention that in the growing global age, you can't
tell me every IP being routed to the ripe region is
under RIPEs control. By adding additional hurdles folks
will simply ignore, and announce their space globally
from the originating RIR more so than they currently do
now. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The goal of the change is to prevent people from fleeing
with their resources allocated by the RIPE NCC from fleeing
into cheaper regions after the new charging scheme has been
approved.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am confused as to why you are going on about where
resources are being announced from.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div lang="x-western"><span class="gmail-"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>4. Buy Back IPv4 resources and return them to
the free pool with any excess money from members
that are willing to give back resources.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>With what money are these bought back and at what
price? Only to re-assign at a financial loss and then
have to buy it back again? Grand scheme of things,
everybody here is ignoring the fact that, with basically
21,000,000 EUR budget to disperse between all LIR's in
RIPE you aren't going to change the world. Aside from a
lot of keyboard warriors pounding away with random ideas
that have no factual backings this thread accomplishes
nothing.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>After the membership has approved the new plan via a
majority vote there will be an excess in money available due
to the higher setup fee. The price will be determined by
availability.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Again, I am well aware of the numbers it just seems that
you are unable to see the picture yet.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Kind Regards,<br>
</span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Stefan Prager</span></div>
<p style="font-size:12.8px">--<br>
Prager-IT e.U.<br>
VAT Number: ATU69773505<br>
Austrian Company Register: 438885w</p>
<p style="font-size:12.8px">Skype: Prager-IT<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:contact@prager-it.com" target="_blank">contact@prager-it.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B43%20680%20300%2099%2080"
value="+436803009980" target="_blank">+43 680 300 99 80</a><br>
+44 20 376 962 11</p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">----
If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a>
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>