<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>a)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Don’t know what these log-in details are<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>b)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>When I click on the link I get told the site is down for maintenance<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Meanwhile my inbox is flooded by unwanted emails<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Anthony Somerset [mailto:anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 21, 2016 7:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> Erik - 8tto Trading Sa <erik@8tto.net><br><b>Cc:</b> jonathanlovell@coretel.co.uk; Network Operations Centre <noc@academia.co.uk>; members-discuss@ripe.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] R: Sign-up fee for additional LIR account<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>see the bottom of every email you recieve<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss<br>mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:<br><a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a><br><br>Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'>Anthony Somerset,<br>Technical Director,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'><img border=0 width=220 style='width:2.2916in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://cloudunboxed.net/img/email-logo.png" alt="Cloud Unboxed Limited"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>w:</span></strong><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'> </span></span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3366FF'><a href="http://www.cloudunboxed.net" title=www.cloudunboxed.net><span style='color:#3366FF'>cloudunboxed.net</span></a></span><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'> </span></span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'>|<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>e: </span></strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'> </span><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net"><span style='color:#3366FF'>anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net</span></a></span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'> |<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>t:</span></strong><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'> </span></span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'>+44 (0)33 0088 2444</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:green'>Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><em><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:gray'>This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended for the addressed individual or entity only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then discard this e-mail. Unauthorized copying, sharing and distributing of this e-mail is prohibited. The content in this e-mail does not necessarily represent the views of the company. The addressee should check all attachments for malware; the company makes no representation as regards the absence of</span></em><span class=apple-converted-space><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:gray'> </span></i></span><em><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:gray'> malware in attachments to this e-mail.</span></em><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 21 Jul,2016, at 20:15, Erik - 8tto Trading Sa <<a href="mailto:erik@8tto.net">erik@8tto.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Dear moderator</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Please can you remove me from this distribution group</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Erik</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>members-discuss [<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Network Operations Centre<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Thursday, July 21, 2016 7:00 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [members-discuss] Sign-up fee for additional LIR account</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Policy changes can be proposed please see this link</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.ripe.net/support/training/learn-online/videos/policy-development-process-pdp/policy-development-3.html"><span style='color:purple'>https://www.ripe.net/support/training/learn-online/videos/policy-development-process-pdp/policy-development-3.html</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I think for interested parties we should setup a group outside of this mailing list to propose a change to the policy. The hard part is convincing the members to vote for it because anyone who would be negatively affected would vote against it and anyone positively affected would vote for it. It would be a good attempt and I’d be happy to co-ordinate and spend some time with other members to propose a change or new policy.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Graham</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></b><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a>> on behalf of Stefan van Westering <<a href="mailto:stefan@softtech.nl"><span style='color:purple'>stefan@softtech.nl</span></a>><br><b>Date:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Thursday, 21 July 2016 at 18:40<br><b>To:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>"<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a>><br><b>Subject:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Re: [members-discuss] Sign-up fee for additional LIR account</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>I agree on this one.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i>Met vriendelijke groet,</i><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i> </i><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i>Stefan van Westering</i><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b>SoftTech Automatisering B.V.</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://3/1"><span style='color:purple'>Engelandlaan 312</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://3/1"><span style='color:purple'>2711 DZ Zoetermeer</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b>Telefoon Support:</b> <a href="tel:079%20-%20303%2001%2017"><span style='color:purple'>079 - 303 01 17</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b>Telefoon Algemeen:</b> <a href="tel:079%20-%20593%2075%2016"><span style='color:purple'>079 - 593 75 16</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b>Fax:</b> <a href="tel:079%20-%20331%2093%2063"><span style='color:purple'>079 - 331 93 63</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b>Email: </b><a href="mailto:jeroen@softtech.nl"><span style='color:purple'>stefan@softtech.nl</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span lang=EN-GB>Internet:</span></b><span lang=EN-GB> </span><a href="http://www.softtech.nl/"><span lang=EN-GB style='color:purple'>http://www.softtech.nl</span></a> <b><span lang=EN-GB>|</span></b><span lang=EN-GB> <b>Email Support:</b></span><a href="mailto:sbsupport@softtech.nl"><span lang=EN-GB style='color:purple'>sbsupport@softtech.nl</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><br>Op 21 jul. 2016 om 19:38 heeft David Benwell <<a href="mailto:dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk"><span style='color:purple'>dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk</span></a>> het volgende geschreven:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>Spot on. Is there such a voting system in place with ripe with enough votes to change the policy to something like you have said below?<br><br>This no doubt will upset some of the LR's who do have /19 /20 /16 doing nothing with them.<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: members-discuss [<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</span></a>] On Behalf Of Network Operations Centre<br>Sent: 21 July 2016 18:33<br>To:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net"><span style='color:purple'>members-discuss@ripe.net</span></a><br>Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Sign-up fee for additional LIR account<br><br>You have picked one point out of a longer email but I do acknowledge that but to retort a lot of people got MORE than they needed at the time and the two probably balance out. It really comes down to bad controls early on and LIRs being penalised for it now. Some onus should be put on to RIPE to sort out the mess from the past that would go some way to sorting the issue out.<br><br>There is I’m sure a way using all of the many tools we have available be able to prove to RIPE what ips are being used. Something like Netflow data would show the percentage of IPs in use across an allocation and upon proof of exhaustion at the local level be entitled to more. Additionally then people hording should be made to return their IP’s until they need them.<span style='font-family:MingLiU'><br><br><br></span>Graham<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><span style='font-family:MingLiU'><br><br><br></span>On 21/07/2016, 18:23, "Gert Doering" <<a href="mailto:gert@space.net"><span style='color:purple'>gert@space.net</span></a>> wrote:<br><br> Hi,<br><br> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 05:11:03PM +0000, Network Operations Centre wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>IMHO the current position is hurting the industry and creating un necessary complexity. The final /8 rule was put in to help new LIRs. As a new small LIR its hindering our growth plans period.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br> What would you say today if we had no "final /8 rule" today, and all<br> IPv4 space would have been used up 5 years ago?<br><br> In other words: you would not even get a /22 today, if the policy were<br> not as restrictive as it is.<br><br> (I find it amazing how loud folks complain about "we cannot get enough!"<br> that only are able to get anything at all because all *others* got less<br> than they wanted, earlier in the game)<br><br> Gert Doering<br> -- NetMaster<br> --<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?<br><br> SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard<br> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann<br> D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)<br> Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279<br><br><br>----<br>If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:<br><a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/"><span style='color:purple'>https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</span></a><br><br>Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.<br>----<br>If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss<br>mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:<br><a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/"><span style='color:purple'>https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</span></a><br><br>Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white'>----</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><span style='background:white'>If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss</span><br><span style='background:white'>mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:</span><br><span style='background:white'><a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a></span><br><br><span style='background:white'>Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>