<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mv="http://macVmlSchemaUri" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Title" content=""> <meta name="Keywords" content=""> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Personally I fail to even see the point of the requirement of an additional LIR account. It just adds extra overhead and cost. If we are allowed to setup new accounts to get additional /22’s then why not just change the charging structure and charge us additional fees for the /22’s so we can manage in one simple portal against a single LIR.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Everyone in need will find a way and these elaborate policies and rules around it aren’t working. This was proved by the turnaround of the additional LIR account policy. Measures put in by RIPE will be circumvented by those who want to or are in need. Remember IP’s are the life blood of our business. No one is going to let a policy get in the way of doing business.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Maybe the idea of a documented IPv6 deployment gains the ability to apply for additional IP’s from the remaining block.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">As a smaller new LIR it really annoys me that small ISPs were issued /16’s in the past that they still haven’t filled to this day or have used very uneconomically. I know of a small business park that was assigned a /24 many years ago that use a /28 out of it. I do really think RIPE should be spending all these extra fees on undoing the mistakes of the past.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">In reality IPv6 is still a way off 100% penetration and that is the only point IPv4 is of no use any longer.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">IMHO the current position is hurting the industry and creating un necessary complexity. The final /8 rule was put in to help new LIRs. As a new small LIR its hindering our growth plans period.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Graham<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <div id=""> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" style="width:100.0%;border-top:dotted #595959 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:dotted #595959 1.0pt;border-right:none"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="border:none;padding:15.0pt 0in 15.0pt 0in"> <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="576" style="width:6.0in"> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="9" rowspan="2" valign="top" style="padding:0in 15.0pt 0in 0in"> <p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><a href="http://www.academia.co.uk/" target="_new"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:purple;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="160" height="42" id="_x0000_i1037" src="cid:image001.png@01D1E37B.3E1919D0"></span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td colspan="2" style="border:none;border-left:solid #595959 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 15.0pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:#19458D">Graham Stewart</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#595959"><br> Senior Solutions Architect <o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> 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src="cid:image005.jpg@01D1E37B.3E1919D0"></span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width="19" style="width:14.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"> <p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td colspan="2" style="border:none;border-left:solid #595959 1.0pt;padding:7.5pt 0in 0in 15.0pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#595959">8 Kinetic Crescent • Innova Park • Enfield • EN3 7XH<o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="69" style="width:51.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td> <td width="25" style="width:18.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td> <td width="4" style="width:3.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td> <td width="25" style="width:18.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td> <td width="4" style="width:3.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td> <td width="25" style="width:18.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td> <td width="4" 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style="width:7.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"> <p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"> <o:p></o:p></p> </td> <td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"> <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.deloitte.co.uk/fast50/winners/previous-winners/index.cfm"><span style="color:purple;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="80" height="34" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image013.png@01D1E37B.3E1919D0"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span> </b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Stefan van Westering <stefan@softtech.nl><br> <b>Date: </b>Thursday, 21 July 2016 at 17:59<br> <b>To: </b>David Ponzone <david.ponzone@ipeva.fr><br> <b>Cc: </b>"members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net><br> <b>Subject: </b>Re: [members-discuss] Sign-up fee for additional LIR account<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">At this moment additional LIR accounts with a /22 will not be able to transfer the /22 within 24 months if i am correct and thus not be able to sell them to another LIR.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div id="AppleMailSignature"> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div id="AppleMailSignature"> <p class="MsoNormal">Only if that is the case then i agree with lowering the setup fee by 50%.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div id="AppleMailSignature"> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div id="AppleMailSignature"> <p class="MsoNormal">I agree with David that there should be more control over the IP hoarding issue, but i do not think lowering the setup fee will advantage the hoarding, at least not within 24 months.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div id="AppleMailSignature"> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div id="AppleMailSignature"> <p class="MsoNormal">That combined with IPv6 becoming closer and closer, the question would be: will there be still active use of IPv4 by then? :)<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div id="AppleMailSignature"> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div id="AppleMailSignature"> <p class="MsoNormal">Just my thoughts.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div id="AppleMailSignature"> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><i>With kind regards,</i><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><i> </i><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><i>Stefan van Westering</i><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>SoftTech Automatisering B.V.</b><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://3/1">Engelandlaan 312</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://3/1">2711 DZ Zoetermeer</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Telefoon Support:</b> <a href="tel:079%20-%20303%2001%2017">079 - 303 01 17</a><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Telefoon Algemeen:</b> <a href="tel:079%20-%20593%2075%2016">079 - 593 75 16</a><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Fax:</b> <a href="tel:079%20-%20331%2093%2063">079 - 331 93 63</a><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Email: </b><a href="mailto:jeroen@softtech.nl">stefan@softtech.nl</a><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB">Internet:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><a href="http://www.softtech.nl/"><span lang="EN-GB">http://www.softtech.nl</span></a> <b><span lang="EN-GB">|</span></b><span lang="EN-GB"> <b>Email Support:</b></span><a href="mailto:sbsupport@softtech.nl"><span lang="EN-GB">sbsupport@softtech.nl</span></a><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br> Op 21 jul. 2016 om 18:39 heeft David Ponzone <<a href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</a>> het volgende geschreven:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><br> Le 21 juil. 2016 à 18:31, David Benwell <<a href="mailto:dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk">dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div style="margin-left:3.75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">I also agree something needs to be done. Has stated previously, I can see why Ripe are trying to enforce a /22 with an new LR accounts, However this does not resolve the issue that ripe made this rule in the first place to ensure everyone has a equal share.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div style="margin-left:3.75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">I really think ripe needs to address the issue and remove the IP Transfer Service and offer it as a case by case bases only for merging LR accounts.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div style="margin-left:3.75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Why not have a policy if a LR is no longer meeting the requirements that the IP address space was given then they must be returned.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div style="margin-left:3.75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">For example, if larger space then say a /22 goes unused for more then 12 months then its assumed its no longer required and then has to be returned back RIPE so can be allocated to other LRs who do need the additional space.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal">Define « unused » . That’s tricky.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">No one wants to give back address space, so if a LIR doesn’t want it to give it back, it will be quite difficult to have any idea about the real use of the space.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div style="margin-left:3.75pt"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">What really annoys me and I have said this before, we get quoted $8 per IP Address via the transfer service now on a /22 that would be £6202.71</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Numbers, cool.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">8$ it’s a one-time fee, isn’t it ?<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">So it means you should increase your prices of 0.6$/month/IP, to get your money back in 12 months.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">It’s quite acceptable IMHO.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#1C00FF">David Ponzone</span></span><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1C00FF"> </span></span><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Direction Technique</span></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"" HelveticaNeue??,?serif??="">email: <a href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</a></span></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"" HelveticaNeue??,?serif??="">tel: 01 74 03 18 97</span></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"" HelveticaNeue??,?serif??="">gsm: 06 66 98 76 34</span></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0022F3"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"" HelveticaNeue??,?serif?;color:#1C00FF?="">Service Client </span><span style="font-family:"" HelveticaNeue??,?serif?;color:red?="">IP</span><span style="font-family:"" HelveticaNeue??,?serif?;color:#1C00FF?="">eva</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#0022F3"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"" HelveticaNeue??,?serif?;color:black?="">tel: 0811 46 26 26</span></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0022F3"><a href="blocked::http://www.ipeva.fr/">www.ipeva.fr</a></span></u><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#656895"> - </span><u><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0022F3"><a href="blocked::http://www.ipeva-studio.com/">www.ipeva-studio.com</a></span></u><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0022F3"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#0022F3"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:silver">Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. 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