<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body bgcolor=white lang=IT-CH link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1>Dear moderator<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Please can you remove me from this distribution group<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Regards<o:p></o:p>Erik<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: members-discuss [<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>] On Behalf Of Network Operations Centre Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 7:00 PM To: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Sign-up fee for additional LIR account<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p>Policy changes can be proposed please see this link<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p><a href="https://www.ripe.net/support/training/learn-online/videos/policy-development-process-pdp/policy-development-3.html">https://www.ripe.net/support/training/learn-online/videos/policy-development-process-pdp/policy-development-3.html</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>I think for interested parties we should setup a group outside of this mailing list to propose a change to the policy. The hard part is convincing the members to vote for it because anyone who would be negatively affected would vote against it and anyone positively affected would vote for it. It would be a good attempt and I’d be happy to co-ordinate and spend some time with other members to propose a change or new policy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Graham<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: members-discuss <<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>> on behalf of Stefan van Westering <<a href="mailto:stefan@softtech.nl">stefan@softtech.nl</a>> Date: Thursday, 21 July 2016 at 18:40 To: "<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Sign-up fee for additional LIR account<o:p></o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div>I agree on this one.<o:p></o:p>Met vriendelijke groet,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Stefan van Westering<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>SoftTech Automatisering B.V.<o:p></o:p><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://3/1">Engelandlaan 312</a><o:p></o:p><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://3/1">2711 DZ Zoetermeer</a><o:p></o:p>Telefoon Support: <a href="tel:079%20-%20303%2001%2017">079 - 303 01 17</a><o:p></o:p>Telefoon Algemeen: <a href="tel:079%20-%20593%2075%2016">079 - 593 75 16</a><o:p></o:p>Fax: <a href="tel:079%20-%20331%2093%2063">079 - 331 93 63</a><o:p></o:p>Email: <a href="mailto:jeroen@softtech.nl">stefan@softtech.nl</a><o:p></o:p>Internet: <a href="http://www.softtech.nl/">http://www.softtech.nl</a> | Email Support:<a href="mailto:sbsupport@softtech.nl">sbsupport@softtech.nl</a><o:p></o:p></div><div> Op 21 jul. 2016 om 19:38 heeft David Benwell <<a href="mailto:dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk">dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk</a>> het volgende geschreven:<o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div>Spot on. Is there such a voting system in place with ripe with enough votes to change the policy to something like you have said below? This no doubt will upset some of the LR's who do have /19 /20 /16 doing nothing with them. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss [<a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net">mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a>] On Behalf Of Network Operations Centre Sent: 21 July 2016 18:33 To: <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net">members-discuss@ripe.net</a> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Sign-up fee for additional LIR account You have picked one point out of a longer email but I do acknowledge that but to retort a lot of people got MORE than they needed at the time and the two probably balance out. It really comes down to bad controls early on and LIRs being penalised for it now. Some onus should be put on to RIPE to sort out the mess from the past that would go some way to sorting the issue out. There is I’m sure a way using all of the many tools we have available be able to prove to RIPE what ips are being used. Something like Netflow data would show the percentage of IPs in use across an allocation and upon proof of exhaustion at the local level be entitled to more. Additionally then people hording should be made to return their IP’s until they need them. Graham On 21/07/2016, 18:23, "Gert Doering" <<a href="mailto:gert@space.net">gert@space.net</a>> wrote: Hi, On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 05:11:03PM +0000, Network Operations Centre wrote:<o:p></o:p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>IMHO the current position is hurting the industry and creating un necessary complexity. The final /8 rule was put in to help new LIRs. As a new small LIR its hindering our growth plans period.<o:p></o:p></blockquote> What would you say today if we had no "final /8 rule" today, and all IPv4 space would have been used up 5 years ago? In other words: you would not even get a /22 today, if the policy were not as restrictive as it is. (I find it amazing how loud folks complain about "we cannot get enough!" that only are able to get anything at all because all *others* got less than they wanted, earlier in the game) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>