<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi David,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think you are referring to 51/8, which belongs to the UK government via the Department of Work and Pensions (the UK Ministry of Defence also has 25/8).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Whilst not routed on the public internet (for want of a better term), a big chunk of 51/8 (~70%) is used internally on the UK government's private networks such as the PSN, but some unused chunks of the unused space were sold off last year. It's also worth noting that this is legacy space that predates the RIRs and so isn't really subject to any modern policies.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are plenty of similar sized legacy IPv4 blocks allocated to various world government organisations (mainly the US) and private companies, but you're not going to be able to recover them and even if you did they would only delay the inevitable for a little while.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As others have said, you're never going to be able to stop such transfers happening (simple market forces), so it's much better to have them happen transparently in public under RIR policies with the details documented in the registry than have shady, undocumented backroom deals.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This has all been rehashed several times before and I'm afraid that I can't see any reason that the conclusions would be any different this time, but if you have something new that will change things then by all means put together a policy proposal.</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class="">Edward Dore <br class="">Freethought Internet <br class=""></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 27 May 2016, at 09:34, David Benwell <<a href="mailto:dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk" class="">dave@it-communicationsltd.co.uk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">With IPv4 running out and LIRs only being allowed final /22 in my view makes it unfair to new members who may need additional addresses.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">With some of the other LIRs having for example /19 unused makes it unfair for them to advertise their unused address space on the transfer service and want to charge up words of £8 per IP Address.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Given the fact the IP Addresses is a public resource, I fail to see how it should be allowed for LIRs to make a profit out of unused space.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">There should be a policy and if the address space is not used / required, it must be handed back to the public pool of resources so can then be allocated to other LIRS as part of their annual membership.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I even recall the Government sitting on “I believe” a /8 and then tried to sell this off to raise money. Again this should not be allowed. LIRS should NOT be able to make profit for selling a public resource.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Regards<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Dave<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" width="471" style="width: 353.25pt;"><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td width="87" style="width: 65.25pt; padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span id="cid:image001.png@01D1B7FA.F14EDF00"><image001.png></span></span></b><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td><td width="377" style="width: 282.75pt; padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Dave Benwell</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>-<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">3CX Certified Professional</span></b></span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""> </span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><span id="cid:image002.png@01D1B7FA.F14EDF00"><image002.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" width="672" style="width: 504pt;"><tbody class=""><tr style="height: 26.1pt;" class=""><td width="24" style="width: 17.8pt; padding: 0.75pt; height: 26.1pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span id="cid:image003.png@01D1B7FA.F14EDF00"><image003.png></span></span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td><td width="293" style="width: 219.75pt; padding: 0.75pt; height: 26.1pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:support@it-communicationsltd.co.uk" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">support@it-communicationsltd.co.uk</span></a></span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td><td width="20" style="width: 15.25pt; padding: 0.75pt; height: 26.1pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span id="cid:image004.png@01D1B7FA.F14EDF00"><image004.png></span></span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td><td width="330" style="width: 247.7pt; padding: 0.75pt; height: 26.1pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="http://www.it-communicationsltd.co.uk/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">www.it-communicationsltd.co.uk</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr style="height: 13.75pt;" class=""><td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.75pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span id="cid:image005.png@01D1B7FA.F14EDF00"><image005.png></span></span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td><td width="293" style="width: 219.75pt; padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.75pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="https://twitter.com/ITCommsltd" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);" class="">@IT Communications</span></a></span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td><td width="20" style="width: 15.25pt; padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.75pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span id="cid:image006.png@01D1B7FA.F14EDF00"><image006.png></span></span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td><td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.75pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/IT-Communications-LTD-3cx-support/173045309375315" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);" class="">Facebook</span></a></span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 15pt;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(124, 125, 114);" class=""><br class="">Telephone:</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(124, 125, 114);" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>01702 66 88 36<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">| Fax:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>01702 66 88 37<br class=""><b class="">Office:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I.T Communications Limited, 20-24 High Street, Rayleigh, Essex, SS6 7EF</span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span id="cid:image007.gif@01D1B7FA.F14EDF00"><image007.gif></span></span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="660" style="width: 495pt;"><tbody class=""><tr style="height: 4pt;" class=""><td width="660" style="width: 495pt; padding: 0cm; height: 4pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">This email, including any attachment, is private and confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or otherwise used by any person other than the intended recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately. I.T Communications Limited is a company registered in England, registered number<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Segoe UI', sans-serif;" class="">7418692</span><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">. Registered office: I.T Communications Limited, Seedbed Business Centre, Vanguard Way, Shoeburyness, Essex, SS3 9QY</span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">----</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></body></html>