<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Would it be so complicated to say:<div class="">If /22 announced by AS X (the buyer), aggregated or not, AND</div><div class="">[(/22 announced by AS Y (the seller)) OR (/22 not announced at all by AS Y)]</div><div class="">then something is wrong</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 34, 243); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#1C00FF">David Ponzone<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="2"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> </font></font></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 34, 243); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue'; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">Direction Technique</font></span></div><div class=""><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; " class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'Helvetica Neue'"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; ">email: <a href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr" class="">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</a></span></font></font></div><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; " class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'Helvetica Neue'"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; ">tel: 01 74 03 18 97</span></font></font></div><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; " class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'Helvetica Neue'"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; ">gsm: 06 66 98 76 34</span></font></font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 34, 243); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; " class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'Helvetica Neue'"><br class=""></font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 34, 243); " class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#1C00FF" face="'Helvetica Neue'">Service Client </font><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'Helvetica Neue'"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">IP</font></font><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#1C00FF" face="'Helvetica Neue'">eva</font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 34, 243); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10px; " class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#1C00FF" face="'Helvetica Neue'"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; "><div class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'Helvetica Neue'"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; ">tel: 0811 46 26 26</span></font></font></div><div class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Arial; color: rgb(0, 34, 243); " class=""><span style="text-decoration: underline; " class=""><a href="blocked::http://www.ipeva.fr/" class="">www.ipeva.fr</a></span><span style="color: rgb(101, 104, 149); " class=""> - <span style="color: rgb(0, 34, 243); text-decoration: underline; " class=""><a href="blocked::http://www.ipeva-studio.com/" class="">www.ipeva-studio.com</a></span></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Arial; color: rgb(0, 34, 243); " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="text-decoration: underline; "><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Arial; color: rgb(0, 34, 243); " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; text-align: justify; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Arial; color: rgb(192, 192, 192); " class=""><i class="">Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisée est interdite. Tout message électronique est susceptible d'altération. </i><b class=""><i class="">IPeva</i></b><i class=""> décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été altéré, déformé ou falsifié. Si vous n'êtes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire immédiatement et d'avertir l'expéditeur.</i></div><div class=""><i class=""><br class=""></i></div></span></div></span></font></div></span></font></div></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 18 févr. 2016 à 14:01, Thomas Mangin <<a href="mailto:thomas.mangin@exa-networks.co.uk" class="">thomas.mangin@exa-networks.co.uk</a>> a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">On 17 Feb 2016, at 17:27, Gunnar Guðvarðarson wrote:<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">2. Make it so that any /22 allocated from "the last /8" is<br class="">non-transferrible if allocated after a specific date, ever.<br class=""><br class="">That way, if a LIR requests a /22 the subnet is bound to that LIR, if<br class="">the LIR then wants to merge with another company it must return the<br class="">/22.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Transfer / Acquisition are not the only way to use some other network IP space.<br class="">I said it in a previous mail but it seems my line of thought was not understood so I will explain it below.<br class="">This is not meant to generate a discussion just show how complex things could become (for the NCC) with the wrong rules in place.<br class=""><br class="">Thomas<br class=""><br class="">—<br class="">Recreative writing:<br class=""><br class="">Create a new business and LIR then find a network wanting the space and LEASE them the space.<br class="">Give them a lovely contract with non-disclosure to protect both parties.<br class=""><br class="">Then the buyer becomes upstream and route the IP address. The seller will very willingly shout to whoever want to believe it that he is a customer/reseller of his and use his infrastructure to deliver services.<br class=""><br class="">They will forever stay two legal entities (negligible cost). I will be therefore be impossible to prove ‘beyond doubt’ to stop this behaviour.<br class=""><br class="">In this scenario the person ‘leasing’ the IP space is at risk but may have no other choice. And clearly as this will be against the rule, the person ‘owning the IP’ can have a suddain realisation that he is doing something wrong and then reclaim what he leased.<br class=""><br class="">If you think it is ugly. think about how you want to handle this issue. I can think uglier :-)<br class=""><br class="">----<br class="">If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss<br class="">mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:<br class=""><a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" class="">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a><br class=""><br class="">Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>