<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><base></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">to come back to the debate about multiple LIR’s and ip space, let me play devil’s advocate for a second :)<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">why don’t we want to allow final IPv4 space to be consumed as quickly as reasonably possible reserving only some final space as required for critical infrastructure needs? (critical infrastructure might be considered as things like as internet exchange points or verified root DNS servers etc)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Yes this would drive up the grey/black market prices and there will be some people that take advantage of this and find creative ways around the various soft landing policies in place globally (this problem isn’t unique to RIPE specifically) for a quick $£ etc </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">however the flip side of this is an enforced shortage of IPv4 because of its consumption will also force people to actually act on getting onto IPv6 properly once and for all. lets not try and prolong the life of a terminally ill patient that is IPv4 - lets give it the IP/Networking equivalent of a Do Not Resuscitate and just let it run out and focus our efforts on building proper IPv6 plans and rolling them out and supporting the IPv6 transition methods like 6to4-PT or similar</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">the increasing price of IPv4 address is really a short to medium term problem because the market would ultimately reach a limit where its much more financially viable to roll out IPv6 network upgrades and infrastructure if not existing already than to purchase grey IP's<br class=""><div class=""> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><p class=""><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">Anthony Somerset,<br class="">Technical Director,</span></p><p class=""><img src="http://cloudunboxed.net/img/email-logo.png" alt="Cloud Unboxed Limited" border="0" width="220" class=""></p><p class=""><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=""><strong class=""><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">w:</span></strong><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);" class=""><a title="www.cloudunboxed.net" href="http://www.cloudunboxed.net" class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);" class="">cloudunboxed.net</span></a></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong class=""><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">e: </span></strong> </span><a href="mailto:anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net" class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);" class="">anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net</span></a><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=""> |<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong class=""><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">t:</span></strong><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>+44 (0)33 0088 2444</span></p><p class=""><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 128, 0);" class="">Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.</span></p><p class=""><em class=""><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(128, 128, 128);" class="">This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended for the addressed individual or entity only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then discard this e-mail. Unauthorized copying, sharing and distributing of this e-mail is prohibited. The content in this e-mail does not necessarily represent the views of the company. The addressee should check all attachments for malware; the company makes no representation as regards the absence of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> malware in attachments to this e-mail.</span></em></p></div> </div> <br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 17 Feb,2016, at 16:31, Jivko Jelev <<a href="mailto:support@polycomm.net" class="">support@polycomm.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0" class=""> <base href="http://www.crm.polycomm.net/" class=""> <title class="">Message Title</title> <div class="jira" style="color: #333; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 1.429"> <table id="background-table" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%" style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt; background-color: #f5f5f5; border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt" class="">  <tbody class=""><tr class=""> <td id="header-pattern-container" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding: 10px 20px" class=""> <table id="header-pattern" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt" class=""> <tbody class=""><tr class=""> <td id="header-avatar-image-container" valign="top" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; vertical-align: top; width: 32px; padding-right: 8px" class=""> <object id="header-avatar-image" class="image_fix" height="32" width="32" border="0" style="border-radius: 3px; vertical-align: top" data="cid:jira-generated-image-avatar-j.jelev@itnsglobal.eu-d3d9ce87-ba30-435a-beaf-17bef2ec45c5" type="application/x-apple-msg-attachment"></object> </td> <td id="header-text-container" valign="middle" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; vertical-align: middle; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; mso-text-raise: 1px" class=""> <a class="user-hover" rel="j.jelev@itnsglobal.eu" id="email_j.jelev@itnsglobal.eu" href="http://www.crm.polycomm.net/secure/ViewProfile.jspa?name=j.jelev%40itnsglobal.eu" style="color:#3b73af;; color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none">Jivko Jelev</a> <strong class="">обновил</strong> запрос </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td id="email-content-container" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding: 0 20px" class=""> <table id="email-content-table" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="100%" style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt; border-spacing: 0; border-collapse: separate" class=""> <tbody class=""><tr class="">  <td class="email-content-rounded-top mobile-expand" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; color: #fff; padding: 0 15px 0 16px; height: 15px; background-color: #fff; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; border-top: 1px solid #ccc; border-right: 1px solid #ccc; border-bottom: 0; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border-top-left-radius: 5px; height: 10px; line-height: 10px; padding: 0 15px 0 16px; mso-line-height-rule: exactly"> </td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td class="email-content-main mobile-expand " style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; border-right: 1px solid #ccc; border-top: 0; border-bottom: 0; padding: 0 15px 0 16px; background-color: #fff"> <table class="page-title-pattern" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="100%" style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt"> <tbody class=""><tr class=""> <td class=" page-title-pattern-first-line" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; padding-top: 10px"> <a href="http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none" class="">Техническая поддержка</a> / <a href="http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none" class=""><img src="http://www.crm.polycomm.net/secure/viewavatar?size=xsmall&avatarId=10415&avatarType=issuetype" height="16" width="16" border="0" align="absmiddle" alt="Обращение" style="vertical-align: text-bottom" class=""></a> <a href="http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none" class="">TS-221</a> </td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td style="vertical-align: top;; padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding-right: 5px; font-size: 20px; line-height: 30px; mso-line-height-rule: exactly" class="page-title-pattern-header-container"> <span class="page-title-pattern-header" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; padding: 0; font-size: 20px; line-height: 30px; mso-text-raise: 2px; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; vertical-align: middle"> <a href="http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none" class="">[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple LIR Accounts - Please Discuss</a> </span> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td id="text-paragraph-pattern-top" class=" comment-top-pattern email-content-main mobile-expand" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; border-right: 1px solid #ccc; border-top: 0; border-bottom: 0; padding: 0 15px 0 16px; background-color: #fff; border-bottom: none; padding-bottom: 0"> <table class="text-paragraph-pattern" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="100%" style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; mso-text-raise: 2px"> <tbody class=""><tr class=""> <td class="mobile-resize-text text-paragraph-pattern-container" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding: 0 0 10px 0"><p style="margin: 10px 0 0 0" class="">I think is more beter this market to be close no reason to sale ip <br class=""> space. !!!<br class=""> RIPE Must take back this free ip space and on standat procedure give <br class=""> space to LIR providers whit clear rule-s ....<br class=""> For exsample big providers have alot of ip space Class B networks and <br class=""> they rent and sell this ip space. This bring to them a big profit. If <br class=""> you are new LIR you have only one option take space from market. no any <br class=""> option to take makert in country where this LIR have custumers.<br class=""> We try to use ipv6 .... for exsample no skype no any web site-s in local <br class=""> peering only one option is NAT for ipv4 ....</p><p style="margin: 10px 0 0 0" class="">On 17-Feb-16 4:18 PM, Matthias Šubik wrote:<br class=""> >> On 17.02.2016, at 14:55, David Ponzone <<a href="mailto:david.ponzone@ipeva.fr" class="">david.ponzone@ipeva.fr</a>> wrote:<br class=""> >><br class=""> > ..<br class=""> >> PS: I see there are some ticketing systems registered as members of the ML. I am receiving quite some garbage when I post and it seems some people are getting the mails although they are not even members of the ML.<br class=""> > I guess RIPE contact leaving the company, and e-Mail address gets assigned to the support queue.<br class=""> > And the helldesk has to close the tickets,<br class=""> > does not have the authority / idea to unsubscribe.<br class=""> ><br class=""> > Matthias<br class=""> > ps: If there are company mergers behind that, it isn’t so easy to find out which address needs unsubscribing, if it isn’t mentioned in the footer.<br class=""> > ----<br class=""> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss<br class=""> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:<br class=""> > <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" class="external-link" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a><br class=""> ><br class=""> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</p><p style="margin: 10px 0 0 0" class="">– <br class=""> Jivko Jelev</p><p style="margin: 10px 0 0 0" class="">General Manager ITNS Global - Bulgaria<br class=""> T/F +359 2 49 66 555<br class=""> US/T +1 4044001713<br class=""> M +359 88 5555122,+359 87 8553844<br class=""> e-mail: <a href="mailto:j.jelev@itnsglobal.eu" class="">j.jelev@itnsglobal.eu</a></p> <hr class=""><p style="margin: 10px 0 0 0" class="">If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss<br class=""> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:<br class=""> <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" class="external-link" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a></p><p style="margin: 10px 0 0 0" class="">Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td class="email-content-main mobile-expand " style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; border-right: 1px solid #ccc; border-top: 0; border-bottom: 0; padding: 0 15px 0 16px; background-color: #fff"> <table id="actions-pattern" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="100%" style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; mso-text-raise: 1px" class=""> <tbody class=""><tr class=""> <td id="actions-pattern-container" valign="middle" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding: 10px 0 10px 24px; vertical-align: middle; padding-left: 0" class=""> <table align="left" style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt" class=""> <tbody class=""><tr class=""> <td class="actions-pattern-action-icon-container" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; mso-text-raise: 0px; vertical-align: middle"> <a href="http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221#add-comment" target="_blank" title="Добавить комментарий" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none" class=""> <span id="cid:jira-generated-image-static-comment-icon-9f024cb1-f167-4d9b-a00d-0691f24e936f"><Mail Attachment.png></span> </a> </td> <td class="actions-pattern-action-text-container" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; mso-text-raise: 4px; padding-left: 5px"> <a href="http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221#add-comment" target="_blank" title="Добавить комментарий" style="color: #3b73af; text-decoration: none" class="">Добавить комментарий</a> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr>  <tr class=""> <td class="email-content-rounded-bottom mobile-expand" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; color: #fff; padding: 0 15px 0 16px; height: 5px; line-height: 5px; background-color: #fff; border-top: 0; border-left: 1px solid #ccc; border-bottom: 1px solid #ccc; border-right: 1px solid #ccc; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; mso-line-height-rule: exactly"> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td id="footer-pattern" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding: 12px 20px" class=""> <table id="footer-pattern-container" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt" class=""> <tbody class=""><tr class=""> <td id="footer-pattern-text" class="mobile-resize-text" width="100%" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; color: #999; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; mso-line-height-rule: exactly; mso-text-raise: 2px"> Это сообщение автоматически генерируется JIRA. <span id="footer-build-information" class="">(v6.4.1#64016-<span title="5d7581434f35c063b7031942e62ed4d72a97fa9c" data-commit-id="5d7581434f35c063b7031942e62ed4d72a97fa9c}" class="">sha1:5d75814</span>)</span> </td> <td id="footer-pattern-logo-desktop-container" valign="top" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding-left: 20px; vertical-align: top" class=""> <table style="border-collapse: collapse; mso-table-lspace: 0pt; mso-table-rspace: 0pt" class=""> <tbody class=""><tr class=""> <td id="footer-pattern-logo-desktop-padding" style="padding: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; padding-top: 3px" class=""> <span id="cid:jira-generated-image-static-footer-desktop-logo-431a6146-4b7b-4da7-ba72-77b9e347cc96"><Mail Attachment.png></span> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </div> </div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>