<div dir="ltr">All of that may be true, Alexandr, but I would still like to review the documentation that made RIPE NCC go "this seems legit" ( of course I have no right to do so, I assume ). Because I very rarely succeed with that, even when I am undoubtedly legit in my requests. And if I succeed, it is after extensive paperwork-shuffling including lots of organizations and legal entities. This seems like a fairly similar scenario. Renaming the LIR, and thus effectively moving it. So, I assume they too had to provide tonnes of documentation from both RU and UA to justify the new RU-prefix. I just don't fully grasp what kind of documentation that can be. In that region. At this point in time. -JB</div><div class="gmail_extra"> <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Alexandr Popov <<a href="mailto:alexp@lec.tel" target="_blank">alexp@lec.tel</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">1. <a href="http://egrul.nalog.ru/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://egrul.nalog.ru/</a> database contains not the entire list of organizations from Russia. There's must be only commercial organizations. “Center of Internet services in DNR” may be a non-profit organization. 2. Russian organization may have an office in Ukraine, as Ukrainian in Russia. There is nothing illegal. 3. Delivery of mail to these cities through Russia much easier than through Ukraine.<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"> On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 13:57:21 +0200 Andrei Kushnireuski <<a href="mailto:ipas.master@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipas.master@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Johan, Where did you find political debates? As Alexey told you 1) There is no information about “Center of Internet services in DNR” (Центр интернет-поддержки ДНР) in <a href="http://egrul.nalog.ru/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://egrul.nalog.ru/</a> database 2) Donetsk/Lugansk are located in Ukraine (not Russian Federation). If you have alternative point of view please provide us proofs. 3) When Sergey Myasoedov started this discussion the organization address was Lugansk, Russian Federation but now it’s updated to Donetsk, Russian Federation. Both addresses are invalid and don’t meet RIPE policies. I placed Andrea’s email to the CC to pay his attention to this issue.. because this situation is NOT normal and overshadow to RIPE NCC. Thanks. --- Andrei. <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On 30 Jun 2015, at 13:45, Johan Boger <<a href="mailto:johan@robtex.com" target="_blank">johan@robtex.com</a>> wrote: Hey all, While I agree RIPE NCC should not get involved in political debates, they should, however, make sure all papers are legal in the nation they were issued. As for disputed regions, I realize it is difficult and something perhaps not possible for RIPE NCC to decide who is right in an interim period, and just what a "nation" constitutes. We have to remember that changes in geography usually happens as a result of some sort of war or invasion, and is rarely something all involved parties agree on (except in post-war situations in the form of treaties - and even then, it's a compromise at best after having lost). However, having said that, it is curious I had to send about 25 documents back and forth while renaming a LIR and moving it to a different geographical location. The requirements for legal papers issued in both countries were a must then, and I had to submit information from various government entities in both nations. So I do wonder a bit why this was so easily pushed through. Was it perhaps pushed through simply BECAUSE the RIPE NCC felt it was a political issue and not something they should touch (so perhaps they didn't apply full scrutiny to documentation out of fear for touching the untouchables?). If I am entirely out of line or out of sync with procedures, I apologize. Just an observation. PS. To mailing list admin: please ignore my email in the queue sent from <a href="mailto:team@robtex.com" target="_blank">team@robtex.com</a>. My subscribed email is <a href="mailto:johan@robtex.com" target="_blank">johan@robtex.com</a>, so naturally that bounced. DS. - Johan Boger, AS48285. On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Samorukov,Alexey <<a href="mailto:samm@net-art.cz" target="_blank">samm@net-art.cz</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> To clarify matters relating to the discussion on LIRs from the Donetsk area, I would like to remind you of the RIPE NCC Executive Board's resolution on continuity to service to all members. Please see the statement at: <a href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-members" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-members</a> The RIPE NCC needs to confirm that an entity exists. Dutch law does not restrict the RIPE NCC from using any means it finds appropriate as proof that a legal entity exists. Documents issued by any national authority are considered to be sufficient proof. </blockquote> Thank you for reply, it would be great to have some clarifications, if possible. Does it mean that organization "Center of Internet services in DNR” is exists in Russia? I cant find any references to it in the registries. Also it is not clear what is “national authority” here. Admin-c and tech-c numbers are with Ukrainian prefix. Lugansk is Ukrainian city. DNR itself is a terroristic organization which is located in the Donetsk area (not Lugansk, btw). Could you please check and confirm that all documents were checked properly? Thank you. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285) e: <a href="mailto:johan@robtex.com" target="_blank">johan@robtex.com</a> w: <a href="http://www.robtex.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.robtex.com</a> ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. </blockquote> ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. </blockquote> ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: <a href="https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/</a> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.</div></div></blockquote></div> </div> <div> </div>-- <div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285) e: <a href="mailto:johan@robtex.com" target="_blank">johan@robtex.com</a> w: <a href="http://www.robtex.com" target="_blank">http://www.robtex.com</a> </div></div>