<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/></head><body style="font-family:Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">IMHO, Smaller ISP’s can take the initiative with the move to IPV6 perhaps – we all need to<br />
> build momentum and start to deploy IPV6 in a big way, and to put in place 6to4 gateways<br />
> and other such infrastructure to allow clients connected on IPV6 to access the whole<br />
> Internet. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
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More simple way - price for IPv4 will grow extremly fast during this and next year. When price for IPv4 will be more than price of migration to IPv6 - many operators will switch from IPv4 to IPv6. After that cost of IPv4 will goes down very fast. It will be second "Tulip fever".<br />
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--<br />
Alexey Ivanov<br />
General Director <br />
LeaderTelecom Ltd<br />
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-- <br />
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При ответе сохраняйте [Ticket#2012021401001516] в теме письма.<br />
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-- </div>
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С уважением,</div>
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Алексей Иванов </div>
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Генеральный директор ООО "ЛидерТелеком"</div>
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Тел.: 8(495)778-98-51<br />
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URL: <a href="http://www.InstantSSL.su/" target="_blank">http://www.InstantSSL.su/</a> - SSL-сертификаты Comodo<br />
URL: <a href="http://verisign.su/" target="_blank">http://verisign.su/</a> - SSL-сертификаты Verisign</div>
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URL: <a href="http://www.HostingConsult.ru/" title="http://www.HostingConsult.ru/" target="_blank">http://www.HostingConsult.ru/</a> - Лицензии связи, IP-адреса и AS</div>
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14.02.2012 15:09 - Ben Fitzgerald-O'Connor написал(а):<br />
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">IMHO, Smaller ISP’s can take the initiative with the move to IPV6 perhaps – we all need to build momentum and start to deploy IPV6 in a big way, and to put in place 6to4 gateways and other such infrastructure to allow clients connected on IPV6 to access the whole Internet. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In many ways smaller ISPs have an advantage over the big ISPs who will have huge amounts of work to do in moving from 4 to 6. In marketing we all also need to stop worrying about running out of IPV4 addresses and start to plan and put in IPV6 addresses. Clients should want to move to IPV6 – once moved across, then this work is done for the next 20 years or so. It has to be done, so we may as well get going and promote IPV6 as the ‘New Internet’ which it is.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">New networks should start on IPV6 – this way they can be ahead of the curve from the start and have a little pain now in learning new ways of doing things but they save a lot of work later by doing this. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">IPV4 addresses are worth a lot now but in time they will be obsolete as IPV6 becomes mainstream and we all need to work to make that happen. Replacing old IPV4 only equipment with new equipment that supports IPV6 fully is a great sales opportunity. We need to grasp the nettle and move ahead on this. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ben<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Cenk Keylan<br />
<b>Sent:</b> 14 February 2012 09:57<br />
<b>To:</b> Ulf Kieber; members-discuss@ripe.net<br />
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] A Whim about next year's fees<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<o:p> </o:p><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Ulf,<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As IP4 is limited resource sure it must have a fee, else how will the new commers can access to the IP4 while the large ISP’s have millions of unused IP addresses which they have got from Ripe years ago. As a simple argument, we have an ISP in Turkey which even their license is taken back and they have 100K times more IP addresses then we have and nobody is asking tem to give the IP addresses back and they are keeping the IP4 block as the fee they pay for membership is not important then the IP4 block they are keeping in hand.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Have a nice day,<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cenk Keylan<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
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<span style="color:#1F497D"><img alt="Description: cid:image003.jpg@01CB9D2E.07D77BD0" height="62" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CCEB04.49E03A10" width="120" /></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">3C1B Telekomünikasyon ve Internet Hizmetleri</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Tepe Prime Plaza B101, Eskişehir Yolu 9.km No:266<o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">06800 Çankaya Ankara Turkiye<o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Tel<o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">: +90-312-988-0000<o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Direkt<o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">: +90-312-988-1015<o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Faks<o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">: +90-312-241-2888<o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href="http://www.3c1b.com/" target="_blank">http://www.3c1b.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href="mailto:info@3c1b.com" target="_blank">info@3c1b.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></td>
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<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="TR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]" target="_blank">[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ulf Kieber<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 14, 2012 11:47 AM<br />
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br />
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] A Whim about next year's fees<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="TR"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Have a look at <a href="http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/resource-management/faq/faq-general-resources" target="_blank"> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/resource-management/faq/faq-general-resources</a><o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> “</span><span lang="EN">IP addresses are a shared public resource and are not for sale.”<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The fee you pay is not a fee for IP addresses, but a fee for supplied registration services by the RIPE NCC.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please also remember that by making an IP address an accountable ressources and sticking a price tag onto it, taxability in the Netherlands will change, yielding an approx. 25% increase in taxes (and fees).<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Since I’m a little bit fed up with this discussion now I hereby request to make the fee a real membership fee for the RIPE association; one member, one fee; budget divided by the number of members.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<b><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ulf Kieber<o:p></o:p></span></b><br />
<span lang="DE-CH" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Head of NOC<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="DE-CH" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">green.ch AG<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<span lang="DE-CH" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]" target="_blank">[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>KOSMOZZ - Info<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Montag, 13. Februar 2012 19:26<br />
<b>To:</b> Lu Heng; <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br />
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [members-discuss] A Whim about next year's fees<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<span lang="DE-CH"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="NL-BE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959">Hi Lu,<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="NL-BE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959">I was thinking the same. Why shouldn’t we all be billed for the amount we are using and may’be pay a fee for the amount that has been reserved and not used?<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959">I’ll take this with me to the Taskforce currently brainstorming on Billing matters.<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="NL-BE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959">Filip Herman<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="NL-BE" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959"><a href="mailto:filip@kosmozz.be" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">filip@kosmozz.be</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959"> <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959">KOS</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#FF3399">MOZZ</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959"> -- </span><span lang="NL-BE" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959"><a href="http://www.kosmozz.be/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">http://www.kosmozz.be</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959"> <br />
| Member of Internet Service Providers Belgium (</span><span lang="NL-BE" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959"><a href="http://www.ispa.be/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">http://www.ispa.be</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959">)<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#595959"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<b><span lang="NL" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Van:</span></b><span lang="NL" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]" target="_blank">[mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net]</a> <b>Namens </b>Lu Heng<br />
<b>Verzonden:</b> maandag 13 februari 2012 18:44<br />
<b>Aan:</b> <a href="mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net" target="_blank">members-discuss@ripe.net</a><br />
<b>Onderwerp:</b> [members-discuss] A Whim about next year's fees<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span lang="NL-BE"><o:p> </o:p></span><br />
<span lang="NL-BE">Hi Colleagues:<o:p></o:p></span><br />
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<span lang="NL-BE"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE">Just had a whim about next year's membership fees, since Ripe will almost certain running out this year, why shouldn't we divided the membership fees as the percentage of the total recourse we have?(mostly IPv4)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE">The total amount of Ripe's IPv4 is known, and by end of this year, the total amount of each LIR's IPv4 is known as well.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE">So why should we just simpy do a math as LIR total amount address(L)/Ripe's total amount of address(R)*100%*Ripe's total need(TN)=Lir's yearly contribution(C)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE">So make the format simple:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE">C=(L/R*100%)*TN<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE">Then I think it is "real fair". And as calculate the member fee based on the share of member in the organization's recourse's, it doesn't imply as "selling IP" rumor which has been the main reason we have categories rather than real fair solutions.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE">How you think, my colleagues, and this is just my 2 cents thought.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="NL-BE"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<span lang="NL-BE">--<br />
--<br />
Kind regards.<br />
Lu<br />
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