[members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM] Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members

> On 15 May 2024, at 19:50, sdy at a-n-t.ru wrote:
> 
> You still don't understand.
> 
> We didn't just agree to the rules (Ok), we all became equal members of the
> community. And this community can change the rules in their common
> interests.
> 
> Obviously, most of the LIRs are not satisfied with the current situation
> with a lack of access to resources and growing payments.
> So the rules need to be changed. And apparently 7% of those who own 84% of
> the resources will have to pay much more or release scarce resources.


I beg to differ.

Most members are perfectly fine with the current situation and implicitly trust the Board to come up with reasonable charging scheme.

Only a tiny percentage of members ever show up for a GM. Why is that?

Very simple:

GM meetings tend to be very boring. They’re mostly about budgets and charging schemes.

The membership fee is very low and always has been: Most of us have QSFPs in our networks that cost more than the RIPE NCC membership. A single router costs 10-100x more and I buy them by the pallet. The membership fee is a vanishingly small part of our budget and that’s true for most members that run actual networks.

There is a very small minority who’s unhappy with the situation because a few hundred euro is a big problem for them.

And you know what?

I don’t care.

If there’s a charging scheme that makes me pay a little more to help those folks out, I’m fine with that.

So please make some concrete proposals instead of just complaining about how unfair the world is.

Maybe we should bring the Small, Medium, Large categories back, maybe we need something else.

But remember, it was the membership, which now includes you, that voted to remove those categories..

Alex


> It's in the best interest of the whole community.
> ----
> Serbulov Dmitry
> 
>> Sorry but actually it is talk about members fee. It is named - "members
>> fee" and it is members fee.
>> 
>> I don’t think current situation is discriminatory.
>> You Ok with membership rules that gave your ability to be a LIR but not Ok
>> with IP addresses allocation rules which exists in the same time. How it
>> is possible ?
>> And more if in the moment you became a LIR why you chose RIPE as RIR for
>> registry service if this organization so discriminatory  from your point
>> of view ??
>> 
>> I can't say for other large LIRs but our company obtained IPs according to
>> RIPEN rules (yes it is not a gift it is procedure) to provide access to
>> Internet for our subscribers.
>> And we don't hold or sell IPs we use them to provide access for people to
>> internet. Hope same as you...
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of
>> sdy at a-n-t.ru
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2024 7:19 PM
>> To: Evgeniy Brodskiy <Evgeniy.Brodskiy at kyivstar.net>
>> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM]
>> Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members
>> 
>> It is not talk about "different members fee"!
>> 
>> It is talking about payment for network resources that we need, but we
>> have not, but, as fact, pay for it use by another LIRs.
>> 
>> Let's not forget that the RIPE community and NCC is a partner organization
>> for network management and interaction. And it is not at all a gathering
>> of big players and address speculators.
>> 
>> Our main task is to organize non-discriminatory access to resources from
>> different networks.
>> If, as a result, now 7% of LIRs took 84% of the address resources, then we
>> have clearly been doing something wrong all these years!
>> 
>> So, at least, another 93% LIRs must to think what is role of NCC is?
>> 
>>> If it is all not about money maybe we can stop talking about different
>>> members fee ?
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> От: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> от имени
>>> sdy at a-n-t.ru <sdy at a-n-t.ru>
>>> Отправлено: вторник, мая 14, 2024 6:38:26 PM
>>> Кому: Jan Zorz - Go6 <jan at go6.si>
>>> Копия: members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net>
>>> Тема: Re: [members-discuss] [comms-circle] Re: [ncc-announce] [GM]
>>> Executive Board Meeting to Discuss Charging Scheme Input from Members
>>> 
>>> Dear Jan.
>>> 
>>> We have alternative look!
>>> If we all pay equal sum - lets devide RIPE ipv4 and AS numbers to
>>> equal parts for every NCC member!
>>> 
>>> P.S.
>>> Please - do not repeat paranoid idea: payment sum = number of votes.
>>> 
>>> We live in 21 century. Money now is not a fetish! When you vote for
>>> government in your country, do you proceed your votes numbers from
>>> your salary and taxes too?
>>> 
>>>> On 14. 5. 24 15:05, ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED wrote:
>>>>> If big organization pay a large amount of taxes - are they have more
>>>>> votes? Im think so - NO.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have more shares in the company - you have more votes :)
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> In proportional model - you pay FIXED amount PER RESOURCE.
>>>>> Why Big members must have more votes? They pay same as other!
>>>> 
>>>> If big members would pay significantly higher members fee price (due
>>>> to larger IPv4 space), then it's only logical that they would request
>>>> proportionally more votes at the GM :)
>>>> 
>>>> Do we really want that?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers, Jan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> members-discuss mailing list
>>>> members-discuss at ripe.net
>>>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://lis/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw0tG8nuWy6CCs1W4ACiM4iO
>>>> ts.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7CEvg
>>>> eniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aeff95308dc74fada14%7Cf8f
>>>> 9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C638513867961755557%7CUnknown%
>>>> 7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
>>>> XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8%2Fi1iRoNvI7tGvWJhCDBg0Zx4SHYAYssglZW
>>>> 48G2LeI%3D&reserved=0<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw3ywIkEIW906kmHhXQzg591
>>>> ?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-disc
>>>> uss&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aef
>>>> f95308dc74fada14%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C6385138
>>>> 67961767143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
>>>> zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iK0vg2BlbU88S8oL
>>>> Em34i1VbWyr1KdVGnFVSgzDLUQI%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://lis/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw0tG8nuWy6CCs1W4ACiM4iO
>>>> ts.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fsdy%2540a-n-t.ru&
>>>> data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aeff953
>>>> 08dc74fada14%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C63851386796
>>>> 1773798%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
>>>> CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FWKFnAaHkrWGRNVQHUMO
>>>> gqUMdZkOs%2BSSUXMFV0s3b80%3D&reserved=0<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://eur01.safelinks.prote/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw1TOn2lX9mYmxWMnBElSVbY
>>>> ction.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptio
>>>> ns%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fsdy%2540a-n-t.ru&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodsk
>>>> iy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aeff95308dc74fada14%7Cf8f9bd573bba43
>>>> 00a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C638513867961780584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb
>>>> 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D
>>>> %7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qB7IxvJBzFfp%2FEsAWIfw9N8MTYHvE%2B4Rdd%2FBWt1RMR0
>>>> %3D&reserved=0>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----------------------------
>>> С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
>>> ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
>>> +7(498)785-8-000 раб.
>>> +7(495)940-92-11 доп.
>>> +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> members-discuss mailing list
>>> members-discuss at ripe.net
>>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://list/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw1uu2WIpTzxPje42EGpRov8
>>> s.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7CEvgen
>>> iy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aeff95308dc74fada14%7Cf8f9bd
>>> 573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C638513867961785548%7CUnknown%7CTW
>>> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6
>>> Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fE4MKYVyC%2Bco%2Bobe2sc%2FPjH4b60xjMWGmqrwu9
>>> Vr67U%3D&reserved=0<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?ur&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw3ptX6zWQYdSSGsIYema9Z4
>>> l=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&
>>> data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aeff9530
>>> 8dc74fada14%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C6385138679617
>>> 90163%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJB
>>> TiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Qv4WFSNvzoMuwFJgSGqwp41J
>>> 7x%2Bol%2BTG%2F4ZPJbiBCxc%3D&reserved=0>
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://list/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw1uu2WIpTzxPje42EGpRov8
>>> s.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fevgeniy.brodskiy%25
>>> 40kyivstar.net&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b0
>>> 25607a4aeff95308dc74fada14%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%
>>> 7C638513867961794729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
>>> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zy8xvCPq%
>>> 2FOxlABKuDtSfytkedyghGLmByNpVlCp9aRM%3D&reserved=0<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://eur01.safel/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw1MrLfOkKy_iKEy4UopfPgZ
>>> inks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailma
>>> n%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fevgeniy.brodskiy%2540kyivstar.net&data
>>> =05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C5e94b025607a4aeff95308dc7
>>> 4fada14%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C63851386796179935
>>> 1%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
>>> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EQrPzOKI2oLeDbT%2F4KutSGRio6
>>> DjAh753R3XYH6Mq7A%3D&reserved=0>
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----------------------------
>> С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
>> ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
>> +7(498)785-8-000 раб.
>> +7(495)940-92-11 доп.
>> +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> members-discuss mailing list
>> members-discuss at ripe.net
>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://mailman.ripe.net/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw33VMbs18WmNVSCqAc-4tL8
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/registry%2540kyivstar.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw0jFn_O3MEeAfg-mPuXd9sD
>> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------
> С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
> ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
> +7(498)785-8-000 раб.
> +7(495)940-92-11 доп.
> +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> members-discuss mailing list
> members-discuss at ripe.net
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://mailman.ripe.net/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw33VMbs18WmNVSCqAc-4tL8
> Unsubscribe: https://www.google.com/url?q=https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleheux%2540ting.com&source=gmail-imap&ust=1716400278000000&usg=AOvVaw10FOm99DSnRuEUDtx5CFbn