[members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available

I fully agree with Gabriel. It is absurd and ridicolous that in 2024, a
company founded just a few years earlier, seeking additional /24 IP
addresses, must engage in absurd machinations and pay huge sums for
them. Meanwhile, a company that has been around for 30 years and
acquired vast amounts of addresses at a time when they were freely
distributed is hoarding them, leaving the addresses unused. 
This contradicts the fundamental ideas of the existence and functioning
of the Internet as a common good. 
An appropriate audit procedure should be implemented, and this issue
should be addressed and regulated. 

BR 

Piotr Siwicki 

W dniu 2024-03-30 10:50, Firma KOMPEX napisał(a):

> exactly
> IP address is not the property of a company that was established in the 1980s or 1990s. When Ripe was so rigorous, he did not think about the use of IP addresses and gave them away because he had them.
> 
> An IP address is a social good and should be available equally to everyone
> 
> Pozdrawiam/Best Regard's
> Gabriel Sulka
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of Mihail Fedorov
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 8:19 PM
> To: ivaylo <ivaylo at bglans.net>
> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
> 
> Is this discussion about RIPE fee plans or about IPv4 usage? That's 2 different questions :-)
> 
> My opinion both can be solved by fee identical to the number v4 in use, for example 1 USD year per /32 address.
> 
> If someone (presumably big company) wants to keep their bag of /8's - they should be actually using them. When IP is in use that's fair to assume it's generating income and that 1 USD per used address is not a problem at all.
> 
> And if someone wants just to keep big subnet because it was given to them on early days of internet - this will become indeed expensive and it will motivate to return/sell some.
> 
> Outcome 1: small eyeball networks will be able to get at least /24 without astronomical investment and/or 2 year wait and pay just 254 USD for account.
> 
> Outcome 2: Big ISPs and companies will pay significantly larger fee (yet literally nothing for them) and RIPE income will be much bigger.
> 
> Addresses is not asset which should be kept and accounted in company "balance". Policy always assumed fair *use*, not fair *keep*.
> 
> Same way domains require small fee per each making keeping thousands not in use a bit expensive.
> 
> On 29 Mar 2024, at 20:05, ivaylo <ivaylo at bglans.net> wrote:
> 
> 1 LIR = 1 Vote
> 
> If you want 2 Votes, always can register other company as LIR. And you again will pay 1500 euro and have same resource limits (before next step up = +1500):
> 
> 1 x /20 IPV4 block
> 1 x /29 IPV6 block
> 8 ASNs
> 
> If we have more than 1 Vote for a LIR, based on the fee (fee: 4500, have 3 Votes), that will lead to monopol, mastodont companies will do what they want will vote and accept decisions only for their interests. And I can not call it democracy nor fair for all.
> 
> Ivaylo Josifov
> VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
> +359 52 969393
> Varna, Bulgaria
> 
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, Evgeniy Brodskiy wrote:
> 
> Confidential/?????????????
> 
> Hi Ivaylo, just to clarify, if some LIR pay for 2 chank of resource does it mean it has 2 votes ??
> If contribution is not equal why votes should be equal ??
> 
> -----------------
> Best regards,
> 
> Evgeniy Brodskiy
> Kyivstar | Network engineer
> Kyiv, Ukraine
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of 
> ivaylo
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 4:54 PM
> To: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open 
> House: Recording and Slides Available
> 
> [????? ?????????? ????? ???????????? ??????? ????????? ?????????? 
> ????? ??? ivaylo at bglans.net. ??????????, ???? ?? ???????: 
> https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
> 
> Every Year we talking same things and every year the result is zero...
> 
> Clearly it is not fair company which holds /22 IPV4 /32 IPV6 and few 
> ASN to pay same amount as a company with /8 IPV4 /20 IPV6 and tens 
> (if not
> hundreds) ASNs.
> 
> Clearly charging scheme based on the holded resource not accepting. Well then why not we think about hard coded resource limits for each member:
> 
> Annual fee of 1500 Euro per LIR gives :
> 1 x /20 Block of IPV4 (sum can be 16 x /24 or 4 x /22)
> 1 x /29 Block of IPV6 (sum can be 8 x /32...)
> 8 x ASNs
> 
> If a LIR pass one or more of the above parameters the applied Annual 
> fee
> +1500 Euro, so such LIR can hold and manage:
> 
> 2 x /20 Block of IPV4 (sum)
> 2 x /29 Block of IPV6 (sum)
> 16 x ASN
> 
> If again pass one or more of these +1500 Euro and so on.
> 
> RIPE to send emails to each member with calculation for its next year fee, and with ask to free resources and return back to RIPE. Newly freed resources to be spread across members who not reach the first target (or at least to can ask for new resources without additional fee):
> 
> 1 x /20 Block of IPV4 (sum can be 16 x /24 or 4 x /22 e.t.c.)
> 1 x /29 Block of IPV6 (sum can be 8 x /32... e.t.c)
> 8 x ASNs
> 
> To legacy resource holders to be given 1 year, to find sponsoring LIR, and their resources to be counted in the LIR account sum resources. Or to be asked to become LIRs, with 500 euro one pay joining fee.
> 
> This way RIPE can predict and calculate its bugdet much better.
> 
> Ivaylo Josifov
> VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
> +359 52 969393
> Varna, Bulgaria
> 
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, Firma KOMPEX wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> it would be fair if the resource was not valued as a resource only 
> as the number of IPs IP should be the basis for settlement - it is 
> actually a cost there is a shortage of addresses, and some people 
> have a lot of them unused and do not return them.
> If they paid for the addresses and it was a cost for them, they 
> would wonder whether they really need them or whether it would be 
> better to return some of them.
> 
> Pozdrawiam
> Gabriel Sulka
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Firma Handlowo - Us?ugowa KOMPEX
> 34-400 Nowy Targ ul. Szaflarska 62A
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> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf 
> Of Gert Doering
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 12:49 PM
> To: domain at wkey.it
> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House:
> Recording and Slides Available
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 07:04:30PM +0100, Andrea Borghi wrote: My humble proposal is to class basing on how many additional 
> resources a company have beyond the basics that was valid at the 
> time of joining Ripe.
> 
> ... and possibly how old these resources are... we got our blocks in 
> 1995/1996, and they are considered "large" by today's standards.  
> Back then, it was what you got as a fast-growing small ISP...
> 
> So if we really go for something based on allocation size, adding a 
> yearly depreciation factor in would make this "more fair" (... we've 
> been paying our share for the last 29(!) years already).
> 
> Gert Doering
> -- NetMaster
> --
> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
> 
> SpaceNet AG                      Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael
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