[members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available

I think you miss some very important key points...

In normal conditions world economic is target to have 2% anual inflations, 
and we all know what is the situation in the past 2 years we have not less 
than 30% inflation so just for past 2 years we have 60% that also reflect 
to RIPE budget.

The ways to compensate this is by increasing member's fee or to attract 
new members. Obviously there are no many new candidates to become LIRs, so 
what else left ?

RIPE is not just a "Internet Phone Book", they must support army of 
bureaucrats, lawyers, techcans, pay for equipment, high speed internet 
access, training programs and many more. How much do you think it cost to 
hire just one lawyer in a country like Netherland ? How much it cost to 
hire a skilled programmer or network engeneer ? As such I can trully tell 
you that I will not work for less than 4K euro and taxes (40%) separate 
which is only for one person 70 000 euro per year. Now take a look at how 
many different contires with different laws RIPE operates, how many 
different services like rpki, DNS and e.t.c. services they have to 
support. All of this need money.

Do not get me wrong, I also think RIPE _MUST_ tight the bells and _MUST_ 
spend our money more transparently and reasonably. But I also see that to 
support all aspect of RIPE work, an appropriate budget is needed.

By your logic, if 15k members drop which is 60%, the RIPE budget also must 
drop by 60%, to fire 60% of the staff, and you beleave all will keep 
working as before ? And what if 90% of the current LIRs 
merged/closed/bankrupt ? You think your fee will not go up and RIPE 
will still exist to defend and your interests + to provide you services 
needed for your bussiness ?

For every ecosystem is extreamly important to have many and different 
members, some will gone, other will come with the years, but for 
sustainable life, their number must be not drop under some levels. With 
current charging scheme we going on the road to drop members and to 
not attract new such.


Ivaylo Josifov
VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
+359 52 969393
Varna, Bulgaria


On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, Emanuele Roserba (Tinext) wrote:

> I 100%. Agree.
> RIPE has taken the path of all bureaucratic organizations, that end up
> working for the good of the bureaucrats and not for that of the users, and
> its budget is going out of control.
> 
> 
> 
> >>
> Emanuele Roserba, Head of Operations
> Managed Cloud Services | Operations
> email: Emanuele.Roserba at tinext.com
> direct: +41 91 612 2224
> 
> 
> Lugano ? Geneva ? Milan ? Dubai ? Kuwait City
> 
> www.tinext.com | cloud.tinext.com
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of Daniel
> Pearson
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 4:18 PM
> To: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House:
> Recording and Slides Available
> 
> Always with the same thing.
> 
> WHY must the fee's go up? WHY is the equivalent to an internet phone book
> listing SO expensive?
> If we drop several thousand LIR's then should RIPE not downsize, it's
> obviously serving less members and should have far much less work to do!
> 
> It's just like any business, if you have 25,000 clients you can afford to
> have 100 staff.
> 
> If within 5 years you now have 15,000 clients, you should have 75 staff, not
> raise your prices because you are afraid to fire staff. RIPE is a member
> driven organization and it should accurately reflect the will of it's
> members and as a member I say NO to changing the fee structure and that RIPE
> needs to tighten its belt like everyone else. If membership is shrinking
> then RIPE needs to shrink along side it!
> 
> If RIPE shrinks so much as you claim, HOW can you justify such a huge
> budget!
> 
> Let's not forget, if you want the 'whales' to pay significantly more than
> you, trust me, they will make sure their voice is heard far more than yours.
> After all if you pay 1,000, and I pay 100,000 , why should your opinion
> matter to me? We are no longer equal are we?
> 
> Daniel~
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/29/24 10:06, ivaylo wrote:
> >
> >> So if we really go for something based on allocation size, adding a
> >> yearly depreciation factor in would make this "more fair" (... we've
> >> been paying our share for the last 29(!) years already).
> >
> > Following this logic, as older one company is as less government taxes
> > should pay ?
> >
> > If all LIRs pay same amount, they _MUST_ have same rights and hold
> > same resources. If we dont change the things now, the future of RIPE
> > is dark really dark. In next 5-10 years number of LIR members will go
> > dramatically down, fees will go up. The IT market in europe will
> > consolidate faster. No new bussiness will start and there will be non
> > stop RIPE budged cuts. In the end RIPE will gone. there will be 15-20
> > mastodont companies which will not need organization like RIPE.
> >
> > Let's make things fair for all. Now (after 30 years developing
> > bussines) can you tell your company is on same level with same money
> > turnover as deutsche telekom for example ? Because you pay as much as
> > DT for completely different bussiness scales.
> >
> >
> > Ivaylo Josifov
> > VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
> > +359 52 969393
> > Varna, Bulgaria
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, Gert Doering wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 07:04:30PM +0100, Andrea Borghi wrote:
> >>> My humble proposal is to class basing on how many additional
> >>> resources a company have beyond the basics that was valid at the
> >>> time of joining Ripe.
> >>
> >> ... and possibly how old these resources are... we got our blocks in
> >> 1995/1996, and they are considered "large" by today's standards.
> >> Back then, it was what you got as a fast-growing small ISP...
> >>
> >> So if we really go for something based on allocation size, adding a
> >> yearly depreciation factor in would make this "more fair" (... we've
> >> been paying our share for the last 29(!) years already).
> >>
> >> Gert Doering
> >> -- NetMaster
> >> --
> >> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
> >>
> >> SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard,
> >> Michael Emmer,
> >> Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler
> >> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A.
> >> Grundner-Culemann
> >> D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
> >> Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
> >>
> >
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> 
> 
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