[members-discuss] [ripe-list] New RIPE Labs Article - Building a stable future for the RIPE NCC

I am absolutely agree with you, but ...

So, if it is 'resources for network builders', the community must forbid
to 'sale' addresses in any methods include giving it in rent, and forced
take back all unused adresses.

And really, I do not understand. If old network builders already paid
millions for Ipv6 migration, why they do not return Ipv4?

Why some who 'paid millions for networks' now 'selling' IPv4 without the
networks?

May be simple! They  want take money twice (take billions by take it from
new RIPE members by 'reselling' common IPv4)?

>
>> Sergey, I want to ask: why those who received addresses earlier and took
>> so many of them that they 'do not feel a shortage' and 'sell' them now,
>> believe that these are THEIR PERSONAL RESOURCES?
>
> Sure. Let's assume you've built a house. You came then to your
> municipality and asked them to assign your house a street number.
> Is this your house number? Yes indeed. Can the municipality take it back?
> Well rather no. Can they force you and the whole city to renumber?
> Probably yes.
>
> And now let's get back to your question. Is the house number a personal
> resource?
>
>> The address space is initially SHARED
>
> Okay. So the coordinator then assigned the addresses to the networks.
>
>> But I personally suggest that at first we must try to resolve this issue
>> in a more reasonable way, by forcing those WHO USE MORE SHARED RESOURCES
>> TO PAY MORE
>
> So those who use more (not shared anymore) addresses paid more to build
> the networks, and now with their efforts to perform the IPv6 transition,
> you propose that the community (or rather the NCC members) will force them
> to pay even more. Then instead of paying millions those users will hire
> many lawyers for the same money and the association will have dozens of
> lawsuits like another RIR has.
>
>
> --
> Best,
> Sergey
>
>
>> On 18. 4. 2024, at 15:31, sdy at a-n-t.ru wrote:
>>
>> Sergey, I want to ask: why those who received addresses earlier and took
>> so many of them that they 'do not feel a shortage' and 'sell' them now,
>> believe that these are THEIR PERSONAL RESOURCES?
>>
>> Initially, the function of RIPE and NCC was to ensure equal access to
>> resources for all members, and not for those who were 'the first to rush
>> in time'.
>>
>> Let me remind you, addresses are not given out 'forever', and even more,
>> are not sold to LIR's or somebody. They are allocated by the RIPE
>> NETWORK
>> COMMUNITY from a COMMON resource for ALL network interaction.
>>
>> If there are no more resources, then the COMMUNITY must create
>> conditions
>> under which NO ONE can keep them for the purpose of speculation. The
>> address space is initially SHARED. In the end, we can 'throw out' all
>> such
>> speculators from the address space allocation (ANY ONE who offer ANY
>> addresses for sale in any form) and distribute their addresses among the
>> rest of the community. Because, according to the logic, they do not now
>> 'rent' addresses, they receive them FOR FREE with the same fee for all!
>>
>> But I personally suggest that at first we must try to resolve this issue
>> in a more reasonable way, by forcing those WHO USE MORE SHARED RESOURCES
>> TO PAY MORE. And direct these payments to solve problems with lack of
>> resources.
>>
>>
>>> Just small tip in your great dialog
>>>
>>> #369 place in top of IPv4 holders
>>> cz.netart
>>> NetArt Group s.r.o.
>>> CZ
>>> 39 IPv4 Allocations
>>> 166400 IPv4
>>>
>>> Have a nice day :)
>>>
>>> On 18.04.2024 18:45, Sergey Myasoedov via members-discuss wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Again we telling old tales!
>>>>
>>>> Dmitry, you're doing this. But this time you came with the fresh idea,
>>>> so I'm happy to discuss it.
>>>>
>>>>>> Paying more than others usually means having more rights. Should the
>>>>>> top
>>>>>> payers benefit more from their membership?
>>>>> If you rent large house dose you have more rights than owner?
>>>>
>>>> Don't you feel the difference between use the IPs for addressing in
>>>> your
>>>> network and renting a house from a specific owner?
>>>>
>>>>> If you pay more taxes does you have more votes?
>>>>
>>>> In case there will be ten or twenty top payers, the association will
>>>> become dependent on their contributions. More dependancy means more
>>>> power. From that point of view flat fee is more fair for the
>>>> association
>>>> members.
>>>>
>>>>> 2. Divide the NCC budget into two parts - Operational (the smallest
>>>>> part)
>>>>> and Investment (the largest part). Everyone must pays the SAME fees
>>>>> to
>>>>> the
>>>>> Operational Budget. The NCC's Investment (research) budget will
>>>>> filled
>>>>> with resource fees.
>>>>
>>>> Have you had a chance to think about the numbers?
>>>>
>>>>> 3. Gradually increase the payment for scarce resources (Investment
>>>>> Budget), with directing the funds from their collection to solve the
>>>>> problem of their shortage.
>>>>
>>>> There is no more shortage. The association runs out of available IPv4,
>>>> you have to admit this. Every new assigned /24 is a redistribution of
>>>> the returned IPv4 space.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best,
>>>> Sergey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 18. 4. 2024, at 14:28, sdy at a-n-t.ru wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Again we telling old tales!
>>>>>
>>>>> Answer me, why some people repeat it again and again?
>>>>>> Paying more than others usually means having more rights. Should the
>>>>>> top
>>>>>> payers benefit more from their membership?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you rent large house dose you have more rights than owner?
>>>>> If you pay more taxes does you have more votes?
>>>>>
>>>>> They will pay more BECOUSE they USE MORE common RESOURCES!
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to write what needs to be done again:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Make a decision on charging NCC members for the scarce resources
>>>>> used.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Divide the NCC budget into two parts - Operational (the smallest
>>>>> part)
>>>>> and Investment (the largest part). Everyone must pays the SAME fees
>>>>> to
>>>>> the
>>>>> Operational Budget. The NCC's Investment (research) budget will
>>>>> filled
>>>>> with resource fees.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Gradually increase the payment for scarce resources (Investment
>>>>> Budget), with directing the funds from their collection to solve the
>>>>> problem of their shortage.
>>>>> For example: the creation of free IPv6 materials and their
>>>>> translation
>>>>> into different languages, the development of software for the
>>>>> integration
>>>>> of IPv4 and Ipv6. The development of IPv6. Popularization of Ipv6.
>>>>> Create
>>>>> open software and harwarefor IPv6. Creating same new protocol
>>>>> solutions
>>>>> for the problems with migration to IPv6.
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> The topic is definitely for members-discuss, not for ripe-list, so
>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>> continue in m-d.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) RIPE need to make some reserve funds for compensate some looses
>>>>>>> due
>>>>>>> sanctions, banking troubles and etc... for example 5% of total
>>>>>>> budget.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's far away from the reality. As far as I remember, the target
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> about 100% of the budget, so the association could survive 1 to 2
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> without any funding. The current status of the reserves is 80%+ of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> budget.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) Change Charging Scheme from LIR based to Resource based and
>>>>>>> spare
>>>>>>> RIPE budget spending in equal parts. Big LIRs with large amount of
>>>>>>> resouces - will be pay more (in equal share), LIRs with small
>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> resources - will be pay less (in equal share).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paying more than others usually means having more rights. Should the
>>>>>> top
>>>>>> payers benefit more from their membership?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Sergey
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>> С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
>>>>> ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
>>>>> +7(498)785-8-000 раб.
>>>>> +7(495)940-92-11 доп.
>>>>> +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
>> ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
>> +7(498)785-8-000 раб.
>> +7(495)940-92-11 доп.
>> +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
>>
>
>


-----------------------------
С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
+7(498)785-8-000 раб.
+7(495)940-92-11 доп.
+7(925)518-10-69 сот.