[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024

On 08.03.2023 16:54, Will van Gulik wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I agree with this point, the IPv4 calculation in model 2 is rough on 
> small companies. We have to remember that small & early ISPs received 
> decently big pools a long time ago, which would impact their yearly 
> fees, by 4 times in the case I measured. For instance, if
> you got a /19 around 2000, and were eligble for a last /22, you're
> already in the " Large " group, which is quite hard. So I'm totally with 
> Martin on that one.
> 

UA.VISTI support that, as we are in the same situation.

We are LIR since 1997. At that time, with our single /19 we counted as 
'SMALL'. Much later  we received 'the last' /22, now our allocations are 
100% used.
While more traditional 'model 1' leads us to 1,6 yearly fee increase, 
'model 2'  leads to 3 times increase.

In case 'Model 2' wins the run, we ask to revise LIR categories as 
offered by Martin Volf (Dragon Internet a.s. ):

"...in my opinion the IPv4 Category Calculation in the provided XLSX 
file is too strict. Maybe doubling the Max Assignments values would be 
more appropriate, i.e.:

  Extra Small    1024
  Small        4096
  Medium        16384
  Large        65536
  Extra Large    >

instead of:

  Extra Small    512
  Small        2048
  Medium        8192
  Large        32768
  Extra Large    >.."

Best regards,
Vitalii Zubok
ua.visti
AS8258


> Also, I think that the model 1 pricing is rough, if adopted, I
> think we will see a lot of people (individuals with LIR for instance), 
> dropping their voting right to move their ressources to an LIR. We would
> have a huge amount of income from transfers the first years, and then we 
> would loose the diversity of votes for small entities.
> In any case, I fear that only " the rich " will be able to vote and keep 
> their ressources going on. Adopting any of these new charging schem 
> would cause a lot of companies to move their ressources to optimize 
> their fees. I'm not sure that's a useful move, as it would cause a lot 
> of administrative
> troubles and load on the NCC.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Will van Gulik
> Nimag Networks
> 
> On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 12:16:26PM +0100, Martin Volf wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> in my opinion the IPv4 Category Calculation in the provided XLSX file 
>> is too strict. Maybe doubling the Max Assignments values would be more 
>> appropriate, i.e.:
>>
>> Extra Small    1024
>> Small        4096
>> Medium        16384
>> Large        65536
>> Extra Large    >
>>
>> instead of:
>>
>> Extra Small    512
>> Small        2048
>> Medium        8192
>> Large        32768
>> Extra Large    >
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Martin Volf
>> Dragon Internet a.s.
>> AS15614
>>
>> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023, Simon Jan Haytink wrote:
>>
>>> Dear RIPE NCC members,
>>>
>>> We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the 
>>> membership in
>>> 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to 
>>> carry out
>>> that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting 
>>> (GM) May
>>> 2023.
>>>
>>> In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed our
>>> members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging 
>>> scheme
>>> model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The
>>> outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were strong 
>>> cases
>>> made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a 
>>> category-based
>>> model that would charge based on the number of resources held by a 
>>> member. A
>>> strong case was also made to charge for all resources allocated or 
>>> assigned
>>> by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers.
>>>
>>> The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of 
>>> the war
>>> in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter
>>> together with the membership.
>>>
>>> One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion 
>>> on the
>>> charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR 
>>> accounts who
>>> received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the coming 
>>> year. This
>>> means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be reduced by a 
>>> significant
>>> amount and we will need to ensure that our charging model allows us to
>>> collect the revenue required to maintain our operations. We believe 
>>> that a
>>> category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation 
>>> risk.
>>> Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in 
>>> fees for
>>> all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a 
>>> charging
>>> scheme model that will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting 
>>> the
>>> needs of the RIPE NCC’s members.
>>>
>>> To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members to
>>> assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to 
>>> review. These
>>> models can be summarised as:
>>>
>>> Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC 
>>> Charging
>>> Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, 
>>> transfers and
>>> changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
>>>
>>> Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR
>>> account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges for
>>> independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure
>>> such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
>>>
>>> In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own 
>>> situation,
>>> we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to calculate the 
>>> fees
>>> you would pay under each of the draft models. It is important to be 
>>> aware
>>> that at this stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative 
>>> and
>>> would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members. We plan to 
>>> review
>>> these figures following consultation with the members, and giving 
>>> input on
>>> those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model.
>>>
>>> You can download the Excel sheet from:
>>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations/member-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx
>>>
>>> We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging 
>>> Scheme in
>>> March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive Board
>>> will then take the input and decide on one or more charging schemes 
>>> for the
>>> membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023. The 
>>> outcome of
>>> that vote will determine the charging scheme model to be used in the 
>>> coming
>>> years.
>>>
>>> I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on the
>>> Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss at ripe.net) by 26 
>>> April.
>>> Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when
>>> formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input 
>>> after this
>>> date is of course also welcome although it might not be reflected in the
>>> schemes put forward to the membership at the GM.
>>>
>>> The consultation will also be recorded and available from:
>>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations
>>>
>>> I look forward to your input.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Simon Jan Haytink
>>> Finance Director
>>> RIPE NCC
>>>
>>> Summary
>>>
>>> 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme
>>> model
>>> 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership
>>> 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far
>>> 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024
>>> 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted 
>>> on by
>>> members
>>> 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> Open House and Survey Results
>>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles
>>>
>>> Presentation at General Meeting
>>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation-and-archive/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf
> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> members-discuss mailing list
>> members-discuss at ripe.net
>> https://mailman.ripe.net/
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/will%40nimag.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> members-discuss mailing list
> members-discuss at ripe.net
> https://mailman.ripe.net/
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/vit%40visti.net