[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024

Hi Everyone,

I agree with this point, the IPv4 calculation in model 2 is rough 
on small companies. We have to remember that small & early ISPs 
received decently big pools a long time ago, which would impact 
their yearly fees, by 4 times in the case I measured. For instance, if
you got a /19 around 2000, and were eligble for a last /22, you're
already in the " Large " group, which is quite hard. So I'm totally 
with Martin on that one.

Also, I think that the model 1 pricing is rough, if adopted, I
think we will see a lot of people (individuals with LIR for instance), 
dropping their voting right to move their ressources to an LIR. We would
have a huge amount of income from transfers the first years, and then we 
would loose the diversity of votes for small entities. 

In any case, I fear that only " the rich " will be able to vote and keep 
their ressources going on. Adopting any of these new charging schem would 
cause a lot of companies to move their ressources to optimize their fees. 
I'm not sure that's a useful move, as it would cause a lot of administrative
troubles and load on the NCC.

Kind regards,

Will van Gulik
Nimag Networks

On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 12:16:26PM +0100, Martin Volf wrote:
>Hello,
>
>in my opinion the IPv4 Category Calculation in the provided XLSX file 
>is too strict. Maybe doubling the Max Assignments values would be more 
>appropriate, i.e.:
>
> Extra Small	1024
> Small		4096
> Medium		16384
> Large		65536
> Extra Large	>
>
>instead of:
>
> Extra Small	512
> Small		2048
> Medium		8192
> Large		32768
> Extra Large	>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Martin Volf
>Dragon Internet a.s.
>AS15614
>
>On Tue, 7 Mar 2023, Simon Jan Haytink wrote:
>
>> Dear RIPE NCC members,
>>
>> We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the membership in
>> 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to carry out
>> that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May
>> 2023.
>>
>> In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed our
>> members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging scheme
>> model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The
>> outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were strong cases
>> made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a category-based
>> model that would charge based on the number of resources held by a member. A
>> strong case was also made to charge for all resources allocated or assigned
>> by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers.
>>
>> The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of the war
>> in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter
>> together with the membership.
>>
>> One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion on the
>> charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR accounts who
>> received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the coming year. This
>> means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be reduced by a significant
>> amount and we will need to ensure that our charging model allows us to
>> collect the revenue required to maintain our operations. We believe that a
>> category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk.
>> Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in fees for
>> all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging
>> scheme model that will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting the
>> needs of the RIPE NCC’s members.
>>
>> To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members to
>> assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to review. These
>> models can be summarised as:
>>
>> Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC Charging
>> Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and
>> changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
>>
>> Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR
>> account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges for
>> independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure
>> such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
>>
>> In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own situation,
>> we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to calculate the fees
>> you would pay under each of the draft models. It is important to be aware
>> that at this stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative and
>> would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members. We plan to review
>> these figures following consultation with the members, and giving input on
>> those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model.
>>
>> You can download the Excel sheet from:
>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations/member-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx
>>
>> We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging Scheme in
>> March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive Board
>> will then take the input and decide on one or more charging schemes for the
>> membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023. The outcome of
>> that vote will determine the charging scheme model to be used in the coming
>> years.
>>
>> I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on the
>> Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss at ripe.net) by 26 April.
>> Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when
>> formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input after this
>> date is of course also welcome although it might not be reflected in the
>> schemes put forward to the membership at the GM.
>>
>> The consultation will also be recorded and available from:
>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations
>>
>> I look forward to your input.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Simon Jan Haytink
>> Finance Director
>> RIPE NCC
>>
>> Summary
>>
>> 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme
>> model
>> 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership
>> 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far
>> 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024
>> 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted on by
>> members
>> 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023
>>
>> References
>>
>> Open House and Survey Results
>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles
>>
>> Presentation at General Meeting
>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation-and-archive/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf

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