[members-discuss] RIPEdb registry need to be ready for separating?

Dear Athina,

I have read your reply with great interest.
You have done a great job with an impressive result. However, I will
allow myself to repeat some of the questions that I am sure the entire
community is interested in, and which have not been answered.
And so:
a) You said "The RIPE Database, along with the equivalent databases of
the other RIRs, must remain the authoritative source to determine
uniqueness of Internet number resources", when and if russian register
with self isolated, will RIPEdb will be authoritative source?
b) Will it be possible to consider RIPEdb records as valid? Or will
part of the registry be compromised? What part? Or the entire
registry?
c) What action RIPE NCC will do when and if the Russian national
register will self isolate from RIPEdb, as they plan. Based on some of
their sovereign  bills, of course?

And finally, I didn't have this question before, but you said "They
told us that their database will have the same data as the RIPE
database and it's just for backup" and I want to ask - do you believe
them? After the statements of the Russians "we are not going to attack
anyone," can they still be trusted now?

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 5:48 PM Athina Fragkouli <afragkou at ripe.net> wrote:
>
> Dear Serg, all,
>
> I would like to give some background on this matter and describe the RIPE NCC’s view.
>
> We have been closely following legal developments with respect to Russian Internet regulation and provided updates in the past: https://labs.ripe.net/author/maxim_burtikov/russia-regulatory-update/
>
> The creation of a local database of all Internet resources was part of the Russian Sovereign Internet Bill. According to Russian government officials, this was an effort to establish the security and resilience of a “Russian segment of Internet”.
>
> In February 2021, the RIPE NCC had a discussion with the organisation responsible for implementing the database to learn about the technical details. They told us that their database would have the same data as the RIPE Database and it was only intended as a back-up. They also stated that the RIPE Database would remain the primary source of data. Please note that while we sought to understand the details, the RIPE NCC did not contribute to this work in any way.
>
> It is also worth noting that other governments in our service region also maintain similar databases, whether as back-ups or for other purposes. The RIPE NCC has always understood that governments will want to ensure diligent administration within their territories.  We have sought to offer technical knowledge so that these efforts do not have a negative impact on Internet stability.
>
> Our position on this matter has been firm:
>
> The RIPE Database and the other RIR databases remain the authoritative source to determine uniqueness of Internet number resources. It is critical for Internet stability that any databases maintained by governments are consistent with the RIPE Database. Inconsistencies between these various databases and the RIPE Database may have severe consequences for the uniqueness of Internet number resources, which is fundamental for the global Internet.
>
> Having said that, it is true that regulatory developments over the past decade include deliberate efforts to protect or otherwise affect the local Internet infrastructure, and these have the potential to impact our operations even as unintended consequence or side effect.
>
> This concern has been highlighted on multiple occasions at RIPE Meetings and in the RIPE Labs article “Caught in the Middle: Regulatory Impact and our Mission as the RIPE NCC”: https://labs.ripe.net/author/athina/caught-in-the-middle-regulatory-impact-and-our-mission-as-the-ripe-ncc/
> In this article we explained that national or international legislation has already started to interfere with our ability to provide the same services to all RIPE NCC members on an equal basis, and this has the potential to impact the operation of the global Internet and might ultimately lead to fragmentation of the Internet.
>
> As we work to mitigate potential threats to our ability to provide services to our members or to the operations of the Internet, we will keep the following principles in mind:
>
> • The wider Internet governance system is essential to the stability of the global Internet and should not be undermined
> • The RIPE Database, along with the equivalent databases of the other RIRs, must remain the authoritative source to determine uniqueness of Internet number resources
> • All networks must be able to access Internet resources and related services on an equal basis, regardless of geography
>
> We will share more information about this work with the membership and the community in due course.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Athina Fragkouli
> Chief Legal Officer
> RIPE NCC
>
>
>
>
> On 17 Mar 2022, at 23:10, Serg Galat <greysticky at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Athina,
>
> Please take a look here.
> In my opinion, no one fully understands how it can end for the entire
> community by implementing such a project.
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 3:53 PM Serg Galat <greysticky at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Andrzej,
>
> Looks like Russia created its own NIR. Against all policies, as RIPE as global.
> It was not clear whether this was discussed and agreed with RIPE as RIR.
> On scheme I saw a broken link to RIPEdb after release. What will be
> for all other members of all other RIR?
> Will it be possible to consider RIPEdb records as valid? Or will part
> of the registry be compromised? What part? Or the entire registry?
>
> DNS and "The Great Russian Fire Wall" - these next questions, but not
> so critically important, to my mind.
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 10:45 AM Andrzej Ława <andrzej.lawa at dawis-it.pl> wrote:
>
>
> W dniu 15.03.2022 o 20:58, Serg Galat pisze:
>
> Dear Andrzej,
>
> I agree with you, but the question is - what's going on?
>
>
> IP registry separation seems to be not true, however it looks like they
> will be separating their DNS systems, or at least enforce (within
> Russia) fake DNS entries for "undesirable" foreign domains. I don't know
> about IP blacklisting... but it seems their government will try to
> create something akin to the "Great Firewall of China".
>
> And some big backbone operators are cutting off Russia from their
> infrastructure.
>
> Usually very active Russian LIRs are unusually silent.
>
> Well, there's this Russian (or maybe Soviet? I can't recall if it
> originated in pre-revolutionary Russia or later in Soviet Union) saying:
> "Tisze budiesz, dalsze jediesz". I suspect they don't want to say
> anything that might get them into trouble - especially since even
> admitting there's any war going on can land them in jail.
>
> --
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>
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>
>
> --
> Sergey
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sergey
>
>


-- 
Sergey