[members-discuss] [exec-board] ripe-ncc-executive-board-election-task-force-report

​Dear Piotr,

That is an outcome, the question is what will happen if a third person raises the issue of fraud wrt the nominee.

Will the Board/RIPE NCC investigate? If there is no verdict will the Board come a conclusion of their own (yes/no fraud in this case) and thus act as an arbiter?​-- 
IDGARA | Alex de Joode | alex at idgara.nl | +31651108221 


On Wed, 28-10-2020 17h 03min, Piotr Strzyzewski <Piotr.Strzyzewski at polsl.pl> wrote:
> 
Dear Alex, Sascha, Members,
> 
> If it turns out a member of the Executive Board committed fraud, while
> he or she signed a statement saying that he/she had never committed any
> fraud or other financial misconduct in any jurisdiction, the Executive
> Board will ask this member to resign. If this member refuses to step
> down, the Executive Board should propose to the General Meeting that he
> or she will be suspended or dismissed. A resolution to suspend or
> dismiss a member of the Executive Board shall require a majority of at
> least two thirds of the votes cast (article 9.3 AoA).
> 
> Best regards,
> Piotr Strzyżewski
> RIPE NCC Executive Board
> 
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:56:55AM +0100, Alex de Joode wrote:
> > ???Thanks Piotr for clarifying this,
> > 
> > It does raise the following question:
> > 
> > Say person 1 becomes a nominee, and self certifies "I have never committed any fraud or other financial misconduct in any jurisdiction". 
> > And say person 2 informs the board (at a later state) that a certain IPv4 IP address transaction (by person 1) was done with fraudulent means.
> > 
> > How will the board proceed????-- 
> > IDGARA | Alex de Joode | alex at idgara.nl | +31651108221 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 28-10-2020 10h 44min, Piotr Strzyzewski " target="_blank"><Piotr.Strzyzewski at polsl.pl> wrote:
> > > 
> > Dear Alex, Members,
> > > 
> > > You are right that the wording of the statement "that he/she has never
> > > committed any fraud or other financial misconduct in any jurisdiction"
> > > is very broad. This was deliberately done.
> > > 
> > > In principle, RIPE NCC will assume the correctness of the statements
> > > provided by the nominees. Therefore, RIPE NCC will not become an arbiter
> > > whether or not a certain action of a nominee constitutes fraud.
> > > 
> > > Best regards,
> > > Piotr Strzyżewski
> > > RIPE NCC Executive Board
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 05:00:44PM +0100, Alex de Joode wrote:
> > > > ???Thanks Christian,
> > > > 
> > > > I missed those. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > "(b) a signed statement in which 
> > > > he/she declares that he/she shall
> > > > adhere to the Code of Conduct for
> > > > candidates for the Executive Board
> > > > as adopted by the Executive Board
> > > > and published on the Association???s
> > > > website, and that he/she has never
> > > > committed any fraud or other
> > > > financial misconduct in any
> > > > jurisdiction"
> > > > 
> > > > This is extremely broad. It also opens the possibility that RIPE NCC has to become an arbiter wether or not a certain action of a nominee constitutes fraud (with all the possible liabilities for RIPE NCC in civil court). Legally it would be preferable to just focus on 'outcomes': has there been any verdict against a nominee. Court cases can be won by nominees .. 
> > > > 
> > > > Is the wording deliberate (ie as broad as possible) Ifso have you thought about the above scenario ?
> > > > ???-- 
> > > > IDGARA | Alex de Joode | alex at idgara.nl | +31651108221 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, 27-10-2020 16h 36min, " target="_blank">" target="_blank">"Kaufmann, Christian" <ckaufman at akamai.com> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Dear Alex,
> > > > Dear Members,
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > Here you can find the exact wordings and details:
> > > > https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/october-2020/proposed-amendments-to-the-ripe-ncc-articles-of-association.pdf
> > > >  
> > > > and here is the rest of the supporting documents we have sent out before.
> > > > https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/october-2020/supporting-documents
> > > >  
> > > > Hope this helps,
> > > >  
> > > > Best,
> > > >  
> > > > Christian Kaufmann
> > > > RIPE NCC Executive Board
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > From:
> > > > Alex de Joode " target="_blank">" target="_blank"><adejoode at idgara.nl>
> > > > > 
> > > > Reply to: Alex de Joode " target="_blank">" target="_blank"><adejoode at idgara.nl>
> > > > > 
> > > > Date: Tuesday, 27. October 2020 at 14:31
> > > > > 
> > > > To: " target="_blank"members-discuss at ripe.net" target="_blank">">"members-discuss at ripe.net" " target="_blank"><members-discuss at ripe.net>, " target="_blank"exec-board at ripe.net" target="_blank">">"exec-board at ripe.net" " target="_blank"><exec-board at ripe.net>
> > > > > 
> > > > Subject: [exec-board] ripe-ncc-executive-board-election-task-force-report
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The report states: 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 7. Other requirements of nominees Recommendation It was agreed that the candidates must agree to follow the code of conduct at all times (see point 6 above).
> > > > The nominee should also sign a statement certifying that they have not committed fraud or other financial misconduct in any jurisdiction. This requirement should be added to the Articles of Association.???
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > This is very broad as it pertains to behaviour. Normally this is stated as "not being convicted for fraud or other financial misconduct in any jurisdiction".
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > So in order to know what we are voting on tomorrow, can the Board show us the exact textual changes we are voting on?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Alex/(as-spectre)
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ???--  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > IDGARA | Alex de Joode | alex at idgara.nl | +31651108221 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Exec-board mailing list
> > > > Exec-board at ripe.net
> > > > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/exec-board
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Piotr Strzyżewski
> > > 
> > 
> 
> --
> Piotr Strzyżewski
> 

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