[members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: Any way to soften it ?

Hello Athina,

I do not deny the fact that transfer procedures have to be clear and
somewhat strict in order to prevent hijacks/legal disputes/etc. I do
not know which loophole you are refering on your email (I'd be curious
about that one, btw, on a side note).

Regarding the dutch law: Could you please let us know more about it ?

If membership is not "transferrable" because of the dutch law, could
you please at least try to create some specific use case, like ease new
"forced" membership with no setup fees (and no /24 eligibility in that
case, of course, in order to avoid abuses), if the  "offering party"
has to become an empty (and yet to terminate) LIR? 

Having to provide documentation, at first, and then having to create a
new LIR with all the related paperwork then, and finally having to pay 
for two memberships for 2020 + signup fees sounds a bit like a
punishment to me. And in the meantime, anything can be done or
requested by any of those LIRs (Initially, I needed to request an ASN,
which I still couldn't request)

Let's see how your due diligence processes are improved, then :-)

Thanks,

-- 
Clément Cavadore


Le jeudi 16 juillet 2020 à 15:30 +0200, Athina Fragkouli a écrit :
> Dear Clement, all
> 
> Thank you for sharing your concerns and apologies for the late reply.
> 
> We recognise that providing documentation can take a lot of time and
> keeps you from your real work. However, we need to be clear on
> exactly who the resource holder is - to prevent hijacks as you note,
> but also to avoid legal disputes over the resources in the future.
> This is a risk when company structures are changing or companies are
> being spun off, and untangling this to see what is actually changing
> is not always straightforward.
> 
> Our transfer procedure was updated after a board resolution in 2016
> which stated that all transfers, including mergers and acquisitions,
> must follow the RIPE transfer policy unless supported by
> documentation from a national authority[1]. This closed a well-known
> and abused loophole that members were using to transfer resources
> outside of the policy.
> 
> The other important point to note here is that under Dutch law,
> memberships are not transferrable. What we therefore need to
> establish in these cases is whether a separate legal entity is
> receiving the resources. If this is indeed what's happening, they
> will need to become a member. This is because a non-member cannot
> receive resources and they are not able to assume the membership of
> the company they are getting the resources from. Of course, if the
> receiving party is already a member, they will not have to open an
> additional membership to acquire the resources.
> 
> Finally, it is worth noting that we have invested quite a lot of
> effort into improving our due diligence processes. We have recently
> developed an approach that should ease a lot of the burden for
> members in terms of documentation. We will share some more details
> about this in the near future.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Athina Fragkouli
> Chief Legal Officer 
> RIPE NCC
> 
> [1] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple LIR Accounts - Decisions and Next
> Steps:
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-announce/2016-April/001031.html
> 
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