[members-discuss] [LIR] Re: Membership Fee Question

Thank you very much for admitting I was right. This is exactly what I was talking about. And this information has been restated 2-3 times and when the slides with the actual amount were shown, all discussion was deviated to another subject .... 

As for the amount itself, of course it does not mean so much business wise but I really do not appreciate the way it was done. If RIPE NCC managed to mislead the entire membership with this, it really is an alarm signal, they may as well be doing it on a much larger scale. 

Silviu

-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos Friaças <cfriacas at fccn.pt> 
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 22:49
To: Skyline Telecom <Skylinetelecom at outlook.com>
Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [LIR] Re: [members-discuss] Membership Fee Question


Hello again,

I think i found it -- you were right!
https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/october-2019/stenography-transcripts

"So, now is the number too big or either doing one or the other, we thought it would be an awesome idea if we split it and offer the compromise of the 50:50 chance.  This is the part that got confusing unfortunately.  You will see then in the presentation the exact numbers and what they mean and one big part which we looked at, if we do 50:50 the amount of money we give back is roughly in the order of what we did in the last years, so what you have expected and kind of got accustomed to.  In the 50:50 example it is pretty much the same amount of money.  But I'll leave the rest for Gwen, otherwise I'll steal all other slides.  But of that the rationale for having three options."

However if we see the referenced slides, on slide 6 the values are 528 EUR in 2018 vs. a projected 296 EUR (with 50% for 2019).

296 is around 56% of 528 -- that doesn't really seem "roughly in the order of what we did in the last years" to me...

Cheers,
Carlos


On Wed, 26 Feb 2020, Carlos Friaças via members-discuss wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2020, Skyline Telecom wrote:
>
>> 
>> Dominic,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I think the reason is that at the GM RIPE misleadingly said that even 
>> if we redistribute only ?50%? of the surplus, the amount will be the 
>> same as last year. Which clearly it isn?t.
>
> Hello,
>
> I think i was there (at the Rotterdam GM) but don't really recall that.
>
> Is that in the minutes? -- i haven't checked.
>
> Even if it isn't, who said that?
> It was someone from the Board or a NCC employee?
>
> The Board is elected by the Membership.
> If you feel you were mislead you can always try to elect different 
> people next time.
>
> Cheers,
> Carlos
>
>
>
>> Unfortunately many based their votes on what the people at RIPE SAID 
>> and they didn?t do the math themselves, otherwise they would have 
>> seen that there is a significant difference in amounts. And now RIPE 
>> is covered, they will say ?you voted, case closed? even though they 
>> gave very misleading information.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So, that?s why the surplus is so much smaller compared to 2019, and 
>> that?s the reason RIPE NCC will also pay taxes to NL authorities, etc etc.
>> Basically, they didn?t want to give money to it?s members, they 
>> preferred to give money to the dutch fiscal authority.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of 
>> Dominic Schallert
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 20:38
>> To: members-discuss at ripe.net
>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Membership Fee Question
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I can?t understand why the surplus redistribution in 2019 had been 
>> EUR
>> 567,52 and in 2020 it?s only EUR 353,82 per LIR. This does not match 
>> with the actual new-LIR development figures in 2019 according to 
>> https://labs.ripe.net/statistics/number-of-lirs
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am 26.02.2020 um 15:26 schrieb Radu-Adrian Feurdean
>> <ripe-ncc at radu-adrian.feurdean.net>:
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, at 21:41, Arash Naderpour wrote:
>> 
>> It doesn't looks fair to me, but you need to see enough support from
>> 
>> the memebers to change it, NCC also like easy money, same as many of
>> 
>> others.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ...and as most of its members who do enjoy the redistribution (when 
>> there is one) the next year.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Back to the initial question, the membership fee *IS* pro-rated when 
>> you
>> *open* the LIR, sometimes to the advantage of the new member (not 
>> including an extra quarter for up to 2 or 3 weeks only).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> If you perform a merger via "M&A Process", the rules are pretty clear 
>> that both LIRs involved need to be with membership fees paid. Even if 
>> you would manage to propose a resolution to change this, I'm not sure it will pass.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Radu-Adrian FEURDEAN
>> 
>>  
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>>  
>> 
>> 
>