[members-discuss] Technical solution to resolve the IPv4 Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are needed in the world

Hi all,

Here is my two cents.

I think we should follow the RFC process. Write down all the engineral
proposal, request for comments, rewrite accordingly, rinse and repeat, when
it's mature discuss it with IETF, got an official RFC number and help
people who want to implement it. There will always be people for are for or
against, it's pointless to try to convince everyone.

All ideas have value, some more than others.

L.

Le dim. 26 avr. 2020 à 13:02, Peter Linder <peter at fiberdirekt.se> a écrit :

> Elad,
>
> You must know that all routing on the isp level is done in dedicated
> hardware with specifically made chips. These routers will all need new line
> cards at the minimum.
>
> Elad Cohen <elad at netstyle.io> skrev: (26 april 2020 12:05:45 CEST)
>>
>> But you didn't understand IPv4+ based on what you are writing or you are
>> trying to influence the readers...
>>
>> First fully understand something, then decide if you are against it or
>> not.
>>
>> Regarding:
>> "you want millions of dollars spent on millions of upgrades for a
>> handful of new IPv4 addresse"
>>
>> No hardware upgrades will be need, only software updates and the software
>> developers (operating system vendors and routing equipment manufacturers)
>> will receive incentives. End-users / companies / organizations - will need
>> to invest nothing.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Elad
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Stuart Willet (primary) <stu at safehosts.co.uk>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2020 1:02 PM
>> *To:* Elad Cohen <elad at netstyle.io>; Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>;
>> Gert Döring <gert at space.net>
>> *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net>
>> *Subject:* RE: [members-discuss] Technical solution to resolve the IPv4
>> Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are
>> needed in the world
>>
>>
>> Elad,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am against your idea, you have not won me over and I don’t think you
>> are likely to.
>>
>> I have repeatedly said this will not work.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s a nice idea, and would have had promise if it was introduced before
>> IPv6 but as things stand today, you want millions of dollars spent on
>> millions of upgrades for a handful of new IPv4 addresses.
>>
>>
>>
>> As I said, if you are having this much trouble introducing it to us, you
>> don’t stand a chance.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Stuart Willet.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Elad Cohen [mailto:elad at netstyle.io]
>> *Sent:* 26 April 2020 10:59
>> *To:* Stuart Willet (primary) <stu at safehosts.co.uk>; Sander Steffann <
>> sander at steffann.nl>; Gert Döring <gert at space.net>
>> *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Technical solution to resolve the IPv4
>> Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are
>> needed in the world
>>
>>
>>
>> Stuart,
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't have any trouble convincing you, the people that responded are
>> not reflecting the opinion of the vast majority of internet companies and
>> internet organizations - which needs IPv4.
>>
>>
>>
>> Each and every person that I wasn't able to convince as you wrote is an
>> active deployer of IPv6 and earns his money from deploying IPv6.
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Elad
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Stuart Willet (primary) <stu at safehosts.co.uk>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2020 12:46 PM
>> *To:* Elad Cohen <elad at netstyle.io>; Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>;
>> Gert Döring <gert at space.net>
>> *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net>
>> *Subject:* RE: [members-discuss] Technical solution to resolve the IPv4
>> Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are
>> needed in the world
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully Elad, you are pushing your idea without considering the
>> consequences.
>>
>> There is no operation against you, we are just trying to point out the
>> flaws in your idea.
>>
>> Just consider this, you are currently speaking with the group that will
>> inevitably be the ones to roll out your idea. If you are having this much
>> trouble convincing us this is a good idea, how would the rest of the world
>> hold up?
>>
>>
>>
>> You keep saying this will work with existing IPv4 but it simply won’t
>> will it.
>>
>> I have a home internet connection provided by BT. They give me an IPv4
>> and an IPv6 address.
>>
>> Traffic preferences IPv6 where it can.
>>
>>
>>
>> How would IPv4+ be added in this scenario? Simple, a firmware update
>> would need to be made on my router. And every router for every other BT
>> customer.
>> Same will apply for VirginMedia et-al.
>>
>> You keep saying it won’t be needed unless there is NAT, but most home
>> routers use NAT.
>>
>> Please explain to me how you think Microsoft are going to spend millions
>> on your upgrade for zero benefit to them?
>> Please explain how ISP’s will recall and replace millions of set top
>> boxes and modems?
>> Please explain how upgrades are going to be done on end of life switches
>> and routers?
>>
>> Please explain how every DNS server on the planet will be upgraded
>> seamlessly?
>>
>>
>>
>> Seriously, if you are having this hard a time winning us over, you don’t
>> stand a chance.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Stuart Willet.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net
>> <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>] *On Behalf Of *Elad Cohen
>> *Sent:* 26 April 2020 10:37
>> *To:* Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>; Gert Döring <gert at space.net>
>> *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Technical solution to resolve the IPv4
>> Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are
>> needed in the world
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> What being done here is a cyber influence operation against me, after I'm
>> only trying to do good to the community.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sander, you didn't mention any flaws,  can you please write them here and
>> I will answer each and every one of them ?
>>
>>
>>
>> First there was the IPv6 fans and now there are the Spamhaus fans.
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Elad
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of
>> Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2020 12:28 PM
>> *To:* Gert Döring <gert at space.net>
>> *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Technical solution to resolve the IPv4
>> Exhaustion problem and to add more 4, 294, 967, 296 IPv4 addresses that are
>> needed in the world
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> > On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 10:51:13AM +0200, Bruno Cordioli wrote:
>> >> I think it is appropriate to close this discussion here.
>> >> Elad will eventually submit his proposed al RIPE meeting or he'll
>> write a
>> >> RFC.
>> >
>> > Basically, this.
>>
>> Seconded
>>
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > Overall, as long as no implementations can be provided (source code on
>> > github etc) this sounds like a somewhat cheap shot to make people
>> believe
>> > you're going to solve their IPv4 problems if they just vote you to the
>> > NCC executive board.  And I hope the NCC members are smart enough to not
>> > vote based on glorious promises, but on track record, provable
>> background,
>> > etc.
>>
>> I have contacted Elad off-list and shown him many fallacies in his
>> design. He insisted implementation and deployment of IPv4+ was easy. I told
>> him he is delusional and that I emailed him off-list as not to shame him
>> publicly, and all he said was:
>>
>> > Go ahead, shame me publicly and you will receive the exact same
>> answers, you are obviously have interests regarding IPv6 and you are trying
>> to avoid from the world more IPv4 addresses just for your own personal
>> profit.
>> >
>> > You are obviously have illegal interests in Ripe and this is the only
>> reasons for your emails to me.
>>
>> There is no talking sense into this person. He is oblivious to how the
>> internet works and how hardware and software upgrades are implemented and
>> deployed. Obviously pointing out his flaws means I have an illegal interest
>> somehow.
>>
>> I think Elad has already tried following Trump's recent advice and we are
>> seeing the consequences…
>>
>> Time to move on…
>> Sander
>>
>
> --
> Skickat från min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Ursäkta min fåordighet.
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