[members-discuss] New Charging Scheme

Hello, Azer

There is no sales, most likely it is rent. The non profit can be resolved 
very easy:

If for previous year the RIPE NCC budget is positive, what is over income 
will be spread between LIRs as discount for the next year. If the 
collected funds from members is cant cover the expenses, the fees per net 
will be lifted for next year with the amount of negative balance.

For example:
Lets say In 2019 the total expenses are 30 000 000 euro , and from 
membership fees was collected 60 000 000

60m - 30m = +30m euro overcome

(10 EURO) - (30m euro) / (sum /24 nets for RIPE region) = (fee for one extra /24 net for 2020)

The oposite scenario can be calculate with the same formula.

For those LIRs who have only one /24 and pay minimal fee of 350 EURO no 
discount for next year. There must be guarantee minimum budget for normal 
RIPE NCC work.

Even I personaly would like RIPE NCC to have bigger budget, to hire more 
staff, and they to care resources that will be returned to be cleared from 
blacklists, bans, wrong annonsing and e.t.c. before they to be redelegated 
to other LIRs.


Ivaylo Josifov
Varteh LTD
Varna Bulgaria



On Fri, 18 Jan 2019, Azer Karyagdy wrote:

> Hello Ivaylo,
>
> You miss important point from RIPE. RIPE do not sell anything. RIPE is non profit organisation based on membership. Each member charged only for membership and nothing more. Therefore membership fee have not any relation with number of resources hold by each member. Therefore, before talking about charge schemes we need change this base terms. I am agreed (as i believe and many other LIR's) that current situation seems to be unfair and it is not stimulate big actor to free up unused ipv4 ip's. It is usual practice in the world that who taken more resources pay for more. IPV4 is resources and they has own cost on free market. We cannot ignore this. Perhaps we need some explanation from RIPE to get more details why RIPE cannot use this way? May be some legal issue existing?
>
> Best Regards
> Azer
>
> ----- ???????? ????????? -----
>>
>> Hello, Gert
>>
>> Yes, you are right the maths do not allow. In future it is sure we
>> will
>> have to migrate to IPV6 because IPV4 cant cover the needs.
>>
>> BUT....
>>
>> To can migration happen we all (LIRs) must be pushed in almost same
>> time.
>> This will not happen if one LIR strugling with resources need, and
>> other
>> have bunch of unused such. Even the fee per year for single IPV4 to
>> become
>> 1000 EURO it will put presure on some LIRs and not to all. We are
>> going on
>> that way now. And it only opens the door for some people to make easy
>> money from us fast.
>>
>> Also the charging scheme must be FAIR for all members. I cant see
>> other
>> way than to be calculate on consumed resources.
>>
>>
>> Such charging scheme that we are talking about was never been in the
>> past.
>> Before 2014, I think, The charging scheme was based on categories
>> with
>> complicated calculation of assignments from previous and current year
>> and
>> something like this.
>>
>> Now I am talking about such scheme:
>>
>> LIR-1 have 1 x /24 annual membership fee:
>> 350 EURO
>>
>> LIR-2 have 4 x /24 annual membership fee:
>> 350 EURO + (4-1) * 10 EURO =  380 EURO
>>
>> LIR-3 have 64 x /24 annual membership fee:
>> 350 EURO + (64-1) * 10 EURO = 990 EURO
>>
>> LIR-4 have 1024 x /24 annual membership fee:
>> 350 EURO + (1024-1) * 10 EURO = 10580 EURO
>>
>> Also changing in rules:
>> LIR cant sell give on lease or transfer to other LIR resources. If
>> you
>> need resources ask RIPE NCC, to lower your fee and have unused
>> resources
>> return to RIPE NCC.
>>
>>
>> Ivaylo Josifov
>> Varteh LTD
>> Varna Bulgaria
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019, Gert Doering wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 08:33:34PM +0100, Thomas Gallo - Nice Blue
>>> srl wrote:
>>>> this sound a very nice approach that could clearly put all on the
>>>> same
>>>> plane: you can spend as you need ipv4 or you can return them if
>>>> you
>>>> don't use it...
>>>
>>> The maths do not permit "spend as you need IPv4".  The big telcos
>>> with
>>> tens of millions of users and the cloud providers provably *need*
>>> all IPv4
>>> there is.  We've been at this point before, like, 15 years ago...
>>>
>>> Gert Doering
>>>        -- NetMaster
>>> --
>>> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
>>>
>>> SpaceNet AG                      Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard,
>>> Michael Emmer
>>> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14        Aufsichtsratsvors.: A.
>>> Grundner-Culemann
>>> D-80807 Muenchen                 HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
>>> Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444         USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
>>>
>>
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>>
>
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