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[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
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Daniel Pearson
daniel at privatesystems.net
Mon May 14 15:53:42 CEST 2018
Hah whoops, I saw the A and went for it, I meant to use Anas Tablieh's address https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ATablieh%40sierrawireless.com On 05/14/2018 08:51 AM, Adrian Bolster wrote: > > Not me, I don’t want to be unsubscribed. People keep trying to > unsubscribe me though! Latest was from 185.151.148.95 > > Members, if you want to unsubscribe use the URL Daniel so kindly > shared with the list; however be sure to replace my email address with > yours, leave the %40 in place of the @ > > *From:*Daniel Pearson <daniel at privatesystems.net> > *Sent:* 14 May 2018 14:40 > *To:* Anas Tablieh <ATablieh at sierrawireless.com>; Adrian Bolster > <Adrian.Bolster at purebroadband.net>; members-discuss at ripe.net > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > Hi there, > > Make sure the link you are clicking actually includes your email > address. That's where the smarts come in, look at the last bit of the > URL, does it look like the one below. > > So for yours it will be this: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/Adrian.Bolster%40purebroadband.net > > Try that should work for you. > > Most likely you are 185.79.217.61 who's currently trying to reset my > password. Sorry that's the wrong link! > > > > On 05/14/2018 08:35 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote: > > Daniel > > You don’t need to be smart to find the unsubscribe link, but I > said many times IT DOESN’T WORK.. it need password , password > can’t be reset !!! > > *From:*Daniel Pearson <daniel at privatesystems.net> > <mailto:daniel at privatesystems.net> > *Sent:* lundi 14 mai 2018 15:27 > *To:* Adrian Bolster <Adrian.Bolster at purebroadband.net> > <mailto:Adrian.Bolster at purebroadband.net>; Anas Tablieh > <ATablieh at sierrawireless.com> > <mailto:ATablieh at sierrawireless.com>; members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > It seems most people don't look at the links and click the first > unsubscribe link they find, half the time not associated with > their email address. > > I get them too... I blame technology for dumbing things down so > people don't think. :) > > On 05/14/2018 08:24 AM, Adrian Bolster wrote: > > Go on then… who tried to unsubscribe me? > > *From:*members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf Of > *Daniel Pearson > *Sent:* 14 May 2018 13:50 > *To:* Anas Tablieh <ATablieh at sierrawireless.com> > <mailto:ATablieh at sierrawireless.com>; members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > Well, use your email address and reset it :) > > On 05/14/2018 07:48 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote: > > unsubscribe link need a password !! > > *From:*Daniel Pearson <daniel at privatesystems.net> > <mailto:daniel at privatesystems.net> > *Sent:* lundi 14 mai 2018 14:48 > *To:* Anas Tablieh <ATablieh at sierrawireless.com> > <mailto:ATablieh at sierrawireless.com>; > members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > Hi there, > > This is a mailing list, please use the unsubscribe link at > the bottom of these emails that is associated with your > email address! > > > > On 05/14/2018 07:45 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote: > > Please remove my mail address from this chat !!!!!! > > *From:*members-discuss > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf > Of *Daniel Pearson > *Sent:* lundi 14 mai 2018 14:25 > *To:* members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer > (in)security > > I concur, there is no legal leg to stand on to force > space to be returned. It just cannot happen, end > period. Thinking about it is nothing but a fantasy and > we live in reality. > > What your asking is no different than having a > complete stranger walk up to your house, admire your > big empty back yard, demand that you give it to them > because they want to build a house in your > neighborhood and well, you don't use your backyard so > why can't they have it for free? > > > > On 05/14/2018 07:05 AM, Peter Linder wrote: > > But there is no point in arguing this. It has been > discussed over and over: > > It is not feasible to "reclaim" legacy space, just > because you want it for free or at a very low > cost. Current holders have a good legal ground to > refuse. Even if it was somehow reclaimed on a > large scale, it would last for a year or so? > Remember, most addresses would need to go to > countries with large populations where Internet is > not built up like it is in Europe or North > America. Then what? Even if RIPE could reallocate > addresses to last a few more years it would mean > even *more* work to do v6, not less. > > Just buy the addresses you need, if more than RIPE > will allocate to you. I know this sucks, > especially in poorer countries. But that is > probably the only way your business is going to > happen, in the short term. An alternative would be > to bother the IETF to release their reserved space > but that is probably a waste of time (never mind > de-bogonizing it). > > Right now IPv4 shortage is hurting a little > because of cost. It will eventually start hurting > more, and in different ways. There are ways to > prepare for that, including making sure v6 is > enabled and functioning on everything you make. > > /Peter > > Den 2018-05-14 kl. 13:38, skrev David Benwell: > > No its about preventing the waste of IP > Addresses. Why allow a LLR to retain address > space that they may never have used. > > *From:*members-discuss > [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] *On > Behalf Of *William > *Sent:* 14 May 2018 12:32 > *To:* Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> > <mailto:suport at bunea.eu> > *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP > transfer (in)security > > But this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please > have a look at your history (or here in > Croatia) - you want to do the same, steal from > some parts of the society ('the rich') to > 'benefit' the whole which ends horribly wrong. > > This discussion is almost as absurd as the > Russian suggestion to move RIPE to Moscow. > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, > Israel / Rijeka, Croatia > > https://ip6.im- No RIPE LIR? Still read this > email for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 > space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, > can't hurt to have. > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM > <suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: > > Everybody that says it’s theft, please > consider the fact that those ‘guys’ got > their hands on /8 blocks tens of years > ago, and probably did not pay a dime for them. > > In the light of events, one /8, respecting > the 1024 IPv4 policy that RIPE has, would > belong to over 16.000 LIR accounts! > > And I must say, 16.000 companies would > create a lot of business compared to one > company that holds a /8 :) > > Thanks > > — > > > imap://daniel%40knownhost%[email protected]:143/fetch%3EUID%3E.INBOX%3E303885?header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image001.jpg > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu> / > +40752481282 <tel:+40752481282> > > *Bunea TELECOM* / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu > <http://www.bunea.eu/> / +40745495495 > <tel:+40745495495> > > > > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex > Lobachov <alxl at telenet.lv > <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv>> wrote: > > Bruno has it’s point. > > Legacy parts of the space should be > reclaimed, but only ICANN has the > power to do so. > > I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d > rather say as all IP space is rented > (owning a number isn’t bright), all > that rented space, wherever it is > legacy or current should be re-audited > to justify the reason of use. > > > -- > Alex Lobachov > Telenet, sia > Network Systems Engineer > LinkedIn: > https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll > E-mail: alxl at telenet.lv > <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv> > Skype: alxl__ > Direct office: +371 67886224 > Office: +371 67711111 > > *From:*Bruno Carvalho > <mailto:bruno.carvalho at xrv.pt> > > *Sent:*Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM > > *To:*members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > *Subject:*Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP > transfer (in)security > > William, > > Legacy or not, at one point a > regulation was introduced. And > everyone should be regulated (pre-RIR > or not). > > Is the same has if you own a car from > back the traffic laws (1800 years?). > If you drive it now, you have to > comply with all the laws that regulate > the sector. > Why the legacy address space owners > shouldn't have to comply with the > actual regulations? > > If we look deep on the spaces between > 0.0.0.0 and 255.255.255.255 (that are > not local or bogons), i bet that most > than 50% are legacy and not used. > > --- > > Image removed by sender. XRV > > > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt > <http://xrv.pt>) | +351 300 404 316 > P Please consider the environment > before printing this email > > > > Image removed by sender. Visit our > website <https://www.xrv.pt/> > Image removed by sender. Facebook > <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/>Image > removed by sender. Twitter > <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote: > > These are legacy. They are not RIR > business. > > No RIR can reclaim them (and > reclaim is plainly wrong, they > never owned them, this is pre-RIR > space), they are private property. > > Taking them is theft and nothing > else, no matter how you phrase it. > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management > - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia > > https://ip6.im <https://ip6.im/>- > No RIPE LIR? Still read this email > for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* > IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just > get it anyway, can't hurt to have. > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, > Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu > <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: > > I agree, > > There are tens of /8's > available, some of them even > unannounced. For example there > are lots of entities which if > they would gave up (even > partially) of their unused > blocks, it would push the IPv4 > complete exaustion to 2020+. > > Thanks, > > Petru > > — > > > <email-signature.jpg> > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu > <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>/ > +40752481282 <tel:+40752481282> > > *Bunea TELECOM*/ DATACENTER / > APP DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu > <http://www.bunea.eu/>/ > +40745495495 <tel:+40745495495> > > > > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, > Janarthanan Sundaram > <j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl > <mailto:j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl>> > wrote: > > I think we should > prioritize on on point > two: what to do with > unused blocks. > > > *Van:* members-discuss > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> > *Namens *Bruno Carvalho > *Verzonden:* maandag 14 > mei 2018 10:11 > *Aan:* > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Onderwerp:* Re: > [members-discuss] VL: IP > transfer (in)security > > This discussion is quite > interesting. But i think > it should be discussed > between all RiRs. Not only > for RIPE. > When we look at big > companies, like Microsoft, > and do a simple scan of > their assigned IP > ranges... we found some > /14 and several /16 > unassigned/unused ranges. > > > Personnally, i think we > should focus on 2 main things: > > > - Improve IPv6 > implementation all over > the territory (i know this > is painfull for many LIRs > because it implies > additional work and > purchase of new > equipments. But let's face > it. We are in 2018. If an > equipment doesn't support > IPv6, it's very obsolete > and not performant). > > > - Check with the other > RiRs what would be the > best to do with those big > unused ranges that are > owned by companies that > don't use them. > > > Regards > > > > > > > --- > > <blocked.gif> > > > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt > <http://xrv.pt/>) | +351 > 300 404 316 > P Please consider the > environment before > printing this email > > > > > > > > > <blocked.gif> > <https://www.xrv.pt/> > <blocked.gif> > <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/><blocked.gif> > <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > > > > On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans > Govenius wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello > > Not needed IP = The > addressese company is > ready to sell for a > small profit 😊 ? This > is probably good > indication that its > not used anymore. One > option is to > automatically block > all and any IP > transaction which does > not involve > transaction of the > whole > company/business. It > is a question that can > IP be a commodity. Now > its a commodity that > is getting more rare > by the year. Maybe IP > should be considered > an jointly owned part > of infrastructure > which is deployed by > need basis. > (Socialistic way) > > Other option is to > start to take money > per IP. This would > instantly mean that > everyone would look up > to own ip spaces. Let > say it would cost 1 > euro / year for a IP > it would only be > approx 1000 euros for > the smallest > allocation. Someone > with 10 million IP > addressese are likely > to happily pay for it > fi they are in use, > but if they are not i > would think they would > be handed back. > (Capitalistic way) > > One option is also to > go with the current > system because > internet is working so > its not horribly wrong > at the moment either. > > One interesting this > is tho that old LIR:s > are likely to wanting > to keep these things > unchanged. New LIR:s > are more likely to > want changes as this > is heavily favoring > old LIR:s. And every > year a proportionally > larger part will be > the ones with few IP:s > and same vote than the > one with alot of IP:s > and also only 1 vote. > > Br. Hans > > > > > -----Alkuperäinen > viesti----- > Lähettäjä: > members-discuss > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> > Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet > Lähetetty: maanantai > 14. toukokuuta 2018 10.34 > Vastaanottaja: > pdonner at znak.fi > <mailto:pdonner at znak.fi>; > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > Aihe: Re: > [members-discuss] VL: > IP transfer (in)security > > W dniu 14.05.2018 o > 09:25, Philip Donner > pisze: > > > I would like to > amplify Dave's > good proposal, by > suggesting that > unused addresses > should be handed > back to RIPE, so > that they can be > added to a pool of > addresses reserved > for LIRs who needs > them for > non-profit > promotion of IP > networks. > > > > > > > > Ok, but there is never > ending story to > resolve: how to define > 'unused addresses'. > Because not announced > in BGP definitely != > not used. > > -- > > Tomasz Śląski > pl.skonet > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss > mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss > mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/alxl%40telenet.lv > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > members-discuss mailing list > > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > > Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/peter%40fiberdirekt.se > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > members-discuss mailing list > > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > > Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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