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[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
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Daniel Pearson
daniel at privatesystems.net
Mon May 14 15:24:31 CEST 2018
Hi there, Please unsubscribe yourself using the links at the bottom of this email. You are part of a mailing list, not a discussion. Thanks! On 05/14/2018 06:57 AM, Richard Quick wrote: > PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME FROM THIS DISCUSSION > > > > Thank you > > > Richard Quick > Space Data Centres Limited > ✆ - 0115 975 8285 > > > >> On 14 May 2018, at 12:52, Thomas A. Bibb <hello at thomasbibb.co.uk >> <mailto:hello at thomasbibb.co.uk>> wrote: >> >> I agree - this is partly to blame for why we’re in the situation >> we’re in. >> >> Tom >> >>> On 14 May 2018, at 12:47, Adrian Bolster >>> <Adrian.Bolster at purebroadband.net >>> <mailto:Adrian.Bolster at purebroadband.net>> wrote: >>> >>> I wholeheartedly agree, it’s not in the best interests of the >>> internet community as a whole to continue to allow huge amounts of >>> address space to remain unused to their full potential. >>> >>> >>> On 14 May 2018, at 12:40, David Benwell >>> <dave at it-communicationsltd.co.uk >>> <mailto:dave at it-communicationsltd.co.uk>> wrote: >>> >>>> No its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses. Why allow a LLR >>>> to retain address space that they may never have used. >>>> *From:*members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net]*On >>>> Behalf Of*William >>>> *Sent:*14 May 2018 12:32 >>>> *To:*Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> >>>> *Cc:*members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> *Subject:*Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security >>>> But this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have a look at your >>>> history (or here in Croatia) - you want to do the same, steal from >>>> some parts of the society ('the rich') to 'benefit' the whole which >>>> ends horribly wrong. >>>> This discussion is almost as absurd as the Russian suggestion to >>>> move RIPE to Moscow. >>>> -- >>>> William Weber >>>> Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia >>>> https://ip6.im <https://ip6.im/>- No RIPE LIR? Still read this >>>> email for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. >>>> Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have. >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu >>>> <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Everybody that says it’s theft, please consider the fact that >>>> those ‘guys’ got their hands on /8 blocks tens of years ago, >>>> and probably did not pay a dime for them. >>>> In the light of events, one /8, respecting the 1024 IPv4 policy >>>> that RIPE has, would belong to over 16.000 LIR accounts! >>>> And I must say, 16.000 companies would create a lot of business >>>> compared to one company that holds a /8 :) >>>> Thanks >>>> — >>>> >>>> <image001.jpg> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Petru Bunea* / CEO >>>> suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu> / +40752481282 >>>> <tel:+40752481282> >>>> *Bunea TELECOM* / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT >>>> http://www.bunea.eu <http://www.bunea.eu/> / +40745495495 >>>> <tel:+40745495495> >>>> >>>> On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov <alxl at telenet.lv >>>> <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv>> wrote: >>>> Bruno has it’s point. >>>> Legacy parts of the space should be reclaimed, but only >>>> ICANN has the power to do so. >>>> I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d rather say as all IP >>>> space is rented (owning a number isn’t bright), all that >>>> rented space, wherever it is legacy or current should be >>>> re-audited to justify the reason of use. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Alex Lobachov >>>> Telenet, sia >>>> Network Systems Engineer >>>> LinkedIn:https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll >>>> E-mail:alxl at telenet.lv <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv> >>>> Skype: alxl__ >>>> Direct office: +371 67886224 >>>> Office: +371 67711111 >>>> >>>> *From:*Bruno Carvalho <mailto:bruno.carvalho at xrv.pt> >>>> *Sent:*Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM >>>> *To:*members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> *Subject:*Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security >>>> William, >>>> Legacy or not, at one point a regulation was introduced. >>>> And everyone should be regulated (pre-RIR or not). >>>> Is the same has if you own a car from back the traffic laws >>>> (1800 years?). If you drive it now, you have to comply with >>>> all the laws that regulate the sector. >>>> Why the legacy address space owners shouldn't have to >>>> comply with the actual regulations? >>>> If we look deep on the spaces between 0.0.0.0 and >>>> 255.255.255.255 (that are not local or bogons), i bet that >>>> most than 50% are legacy and not used. >>>> --- >>>> XRV >>>> >>>> Bruno Carvalho (CEOxrv.pt <http://xrv.pt/>) | +351 300 404 316 >>>> P Please consider the environment before printing this email >>>> >>>> Visit our website <https://www.xrv.pt/> >>>> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/>Twitter >>>> <https://twitter.com/xervers> >>>> >>>> On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote: >>>> >>>> These are legacy. They are not RIR business. >>>> No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is plainly wrong, >>>> they never owned them, this is pre-RIR space), they are >>>> private property. >>>> Taking them is theft and nothing else, no matter how >>>> you phrase it. >>>> -- >>>> William Weber >>>> Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / >>>> Rijeka, Croatia >>>> https://ip6.im <https://ip6.im/>- No RIPE LIR? Still >>>> read this email for some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 >>>> space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt >>>> to have. >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea TELECOM >>>> <suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree, >>>> There are tens of /8's available, some of them even >>>> unannounced. For example there are lots of entities >>>> which if they would gave up (even partially) of >>>> their unused blocks, it would push the IPv4 >>>> complete exaustion to 2020+. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Petru >>>> — >>>> >>>> <email-signature.jpg> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Petru Bunea* / CEO >>>> suport at bunea.eu >>>> <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>/+40752481282 >>>> <tel:+40752481282> >>>> *Bunea TELECOM*/ DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT >>>> http://www.bunea.eu >>>> <http://www.bunea.eu/>/+40745495495 <tel:+40745495495> >>>> >>>> On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan Sundaram >>>> <j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl >>>> <mailto:j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl>> wrote: >>>> I think we should prioritize on on point two: >>>> what to do with unused blocks. >>>> >>>> *Van:* members-discuss >>>> <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net >>>> <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> >>>> *Namens *Bruno Carvalho >>>> *Verzonden:* maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11 >>>> *Aan:* members-discuss at ripe.net >>>> <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP >>>> transfer (in)security >>>> >>>> This discussion is quite interesting. But i >>>> think it should be discussed between all RiRs. >>>> Not only for RIPE. >>>> When we look at big companies, like Microsoft, >>>> and do a simple scan of their assigned IP >>>> ranges... we found some /14 and several /16 >>>> unassigned/unused ranges. >>>> >>>> >>>> Personnally, i think we should focus on 2 main >>>> things: >>>> >>>> >>>> - Improve IPv6 implementation all over the >>>> territory (i know this is painfull for many >>>> LIRs because it implies additional work and >>>> purchase of new equipments. But let's face it. >>>> We are in 2018. If an equipment doesn't support >>>> IPv6, it's very obsolete and not performant). >>>> >>>> >>>> - Check with the other RiRs what would be the >>>> best to do with those big unused ranges that >>>> are owned by companies that don't use them. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> --- >>>> <blocked.gif> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bruno Carvalho (CEOxrv.pt <http://xrv.pt/>) | >>>> +351 300 404 316 >>>> P Please consider the environment before >>>> printing this email >>>> >>>> >>>> <blocked.gif> <https://www.xrv.pt/> >>>> <blocked.gif> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/><blocked.gif> >>>> <https://twitter.com/xervers> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello >>>> >>>> Not needed IP = The addressese company is >>>> ready to sell for a small profit 😊 ? This >>>> is probably good indication that its not >>>> used anymore. One option is to >>>> automatically block all and any IP >>>> transaction which does not involve >>>> transaction of the whole company/business. >>>> It is a question that can IP be a >>>> commodity. Now its a commodity that is >>>> getting more rare by the year. Maybe IP >>>> should be considered an jointly owned part >>>> of infrastructure which is deployed by need >>>> basis. (Socialistic way) >>>> >>>> Other option is to start to take money per >>>> IP. This would instantly mean that everyone >>>> would look up to own ip spaces. Let say it >>>> would cost 1 euro / year for a IP it would >>>> only be approx 1000 euros for the smallest >>>> allocation. Someone with 10 million IP >>>> addressese are likely to happily pay for it >>>> fi they are in use, but if they are not i >>>> would think they would be handed back. >>>> (Capitalistic way) >>>> >>>> One option is also to go with the current >>>> system because internet is working so its >>>> not horribly wrong at the moment either. >>>> >>>> One interesting this is tho that old LIR:s >>>> are likely to wanting to keep these things >>>> unchanged. New LIR:s are more likely to >>>> want changes as this is heavily favoring >>>> old LIR:s. And every year a proportionally >>>> larger part will be the ones with few IP:s >>>> and same vote than the one with alot of >>>> IP:s and also only 1 vote. >>>> >>>> Br. Hans >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- >>>> Lähettäjä: members-discuss >>>> <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net >>>> <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> >>>> Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet >>>> Lähetetty: maanantai 14. toukokuuta 2018 10.34 >>>> Vastaanottaja: pdonner at znak.fi >>>> <mailto:pdonner at znak.fi>; >>>> members-discuss at ripe.net >>>> <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer >>>> (in)security >>>> >>>> W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip Donner >>>> pisze: >>>> >>>> >>>> I would like to amplify Dave's good >>>> proposal, by suggesting that unused >>>> addresses should be handed back to >>>> RIPE, so that they can be added to a >>>> pool of addresses reserved for LIRs who >>>> needs them for non-profit promotion of >>>> IP networks. >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok, but there is never ending story to >>>> resolve: how to define 'unused addresses'. >>>> Because not announced in BGP definitely != >>>> not used. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Tomasz Śląski >>>> pl.skonet >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> members-discuss mailing list >>>> members-discuss at ripe.net >>>> <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/ >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> members-discuss mailing list >>>> members-discuss at ripe.net >>>> <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/ >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> members-discuss mailing list >>>> members-discuss at ripe.net >>>> <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/ >>>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> members-discuss mailing list >>>> members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/ >>>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> members-discuss mailing list >>>> members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/ >>>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/alxl%40telenet.lv >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> members-discuss mailing list >>>> members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/ >>>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> members-discuss mailing list >>>> members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/ >>>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/adrian.bolster%40surebroadband.net >>> <image001.jpg>_______________________________________________ >>> members-discuss mailing list >>> members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >>> https://mailman.ripe.net/ >>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hello%40thomasbibb.co.uk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> members-discuss mailing list >> members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >> https://mailman.ripe.net/ >> Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/richard.quick%40spacedatacentres.co.uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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