[members-discuss] Request to update the SSA - Article 2.2, acceptance of documents

Hi

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 23:18 William <william at william.si> wrote:

> I am absolutely against NOT sending by postal mail to sign but FOR
> allowing to return by mail/digital.
>
> There are already LIRs with fake eg. Belize and African company documents,
> if we now send nothing to nowhere anymore this will just get worse
>

Guess how much a fake P.O. box cost, just google:)

> .
>
> This address sent to is also the only legal trace RIPE has - paid
> anonymous, with fake data and no address needed this is heaven for
> cybercrime - i'd love it, preventing all this BS would make me so much more
> money.
>
> Also, RIPE is not just EU - a digital signature is not worth shit in like
> Iran.
>
for country do not support digital signatures  require by post

> DocuSign and similar are NOT accepted services in such countries, thus the
> signature is plainly invalid.
>
> --
> William Weber
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 13:21, Elvis Daniel Velea <elvis at v4escrow.net>
> wrote:
>
> Erik,
>
> you have my support for the request below.
>
> @all - sorry for the top post
>
> /elvis
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 01:37 Erik Bais <ebais at a2b-internet.com> wrote:
>
> Dear  members,
> I like to open a discussion to have the SSA updated into this century ..
> to allow for acceptance of the documents to be send in via the RIPE NCC
> Portal ( with SSO ) or send in by email after being signed, or the RIPE NCC
> to use a method of digital signature like the usage of DocuSign, Echosign
> or something similar.
> The acceptance of a digital signature has been allowed by EU law since
> December 1999, ( EU Directive 99/93/EG -
> <http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:31999L0093>
> http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:31999L0093  )
> and implemented in Dutch law since 2003 (
> <http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0015046/2003-05-21>
> http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0015046/2003-05-21 )
> We are currently in 2018 and the SSA still refers to a device that most of
> our children never heard of or have seen ..... named a fax machine…
> <snip>
> <https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-673>
> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-673
> Article 2 – General
> 2.1 The RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement shall come into effect by
> means of an offer and an acceptance.
> 2.2 To enter into the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement, the following
> documents have to be sent to the RIPE NCC by post or fax:
> ·         One copy of the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement containing
> the handwritten signature of an authorised representative of the Member
> ·         A recent extract from the Commercial Trade Register or
> equivalent document proving the registration of the Member with the
> national authorities.
> Upon receipt of these documents by the RIPE NCC, the RIPE NCC Standard
> Service Agreement is considered to be concluded. The RIPE NCC shall not
> commence the provision of the RIPE NCC services until these documents have
> been received. Conclusion of the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement
> establishes a RIPE NCC membership.
> </snip>
> While most of the fax implementations these days, including the one at the
> RIPE NCC office, is a device that stores an image copy of a document on a
> server. Not many companies have a paper print fax anymore these days..
> That document from those fax or multi-copier devices can then be printed
> by the local printer or stored digitally in a database attached to a LIR
> application as an attachment. Similar as if someone would scan the signed
> SSA and email the document ..
> However the current wording in the SSA doesn’t allow for that type of
> scenario .. and it should be updated to a more neutral wording to allow a
> better usage of technology.
> If we can sign for a mortgage application in The Netherlands using a
> digital signature, why can’t we apply for a new LIR with a digital
> signature.
> This will also allow for a much smoother new members to complete their
> application ..
> Using digital signatures will reduce the fees to DHL, speed up the
> complete on-boarding process and reduce the handling fees at the RIPE
> office.
> <sarcasm>
> For those that like to keep doing things, like we always did ..  The city
> of Amsterdam is also in the process to dis-allow the usage of horse and
> carriage in the city.
> So if someone would like to take a ride by horse carriage to the postal
> office and use their fax machine there .. that is something that you cannot
> do for a long time anymore as well …
> <https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/na-bierfiets-is-het-ook-einde-verhaal-voor-paardenkoets-in-centrum-amsterdam~a4580876/>
> https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/na-bierfiets-is-het-ook-einde-verhaal-voor-paardenkoets-in-centrum-amsterdam~a4580876/
>
> </sarcasm>
> And for countries that don’t allow the usage of digital signatures or
> members that don’t want to use the new digital signature system, there is
> always the option to request the paper SSA to be send via DHL and have it
> signed and returned. Similar as we are currently also allowing those
> options for invoices …
>
> Kind regards,
> Erik Bais
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>
> --
> Elvis Daniel Velea
> V4Escrow LLC
> Chief Executive Officer
> E-mail: elvis at v4escrow.net
> Mobile: +1 (702) 970 0921
>
> Excuse the briefness of this mail, it was sent from a mobile device.
>
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