[members-discuss] LIR’s billing issues with RIPE NCC, need support

Dear RIPE NCC Members i.e. LIR!

RIPE77 meeting  is over but some questions still active and I want to
bring them up for discussion. This is long-read, but please read it,
it’s important.

I work at ISP company and work a lot of with RIPE NCC as well as for LIR
management and registrations. I want RIPE NCC become better for all LIRs
and try to participate. For long time I face with RIPE NCC strange
billing issues, and I feel not comfortable with them. I run ISP company
and I understand how to manage customers and how usually billing for
services of the IT company should work.

I will try to split different issues in different emails.

First I want to say that I tried to find an answer for my question from
Finance department of the RIPE NCC, I spent a time for that and I found
that it was not correct place for that. I was forwarded to RIPE NCC
Board for such discussion. I wrote my experience at RIPE77 Meeting to
the Board and got feedback that the ideas and facts I explained to them
should be discussed in Members-Discuss list because they are not
described in Policies. So that’s my try to do that.

Let me show you several simple billing issues. They will be related to
companies who pays much more than other companies to RIPE NCC. These are
Multi LIR companies. Yes, everybody knows that company may have several
LIR accounts at RIPE NCC if company pays membership and setup fees. This
is quite normal and a lot of companies use this ability. Let’s start.

What kind of issues do we have. Let me explain most important of them.

1) If a company want to do anything (transfer a part or merge with your
existing company) with one of your LIRs RIPE NCC will ask you to pay
till the end of the year for all LIRs. This is not fear and not correct
because RIPE NCC really doesn’t give a LIR service for that companies.

2) Let’s say you just opened in December new one LIR for your company
(and paid fees for the last 4th part of the year + setup fees) and want
to do something with other LIR resources on account of the same company.
 RIPE NCC will ask to pay full year for LIR that were opened just in
current year. What we have? You just get service for last part of the
year but you should pay for membership for LIR for the time that it was
not existed. This is insane for IT company to overcharge members for the
past time.

3) If one company merge another one - they get still limitations for
keeping several LIRs for several years. Such things should not happen.
It was not so sometime before but now that happens.

What I see? RIPE NCC overcharge LIRs.
Why? It was not so some amount of time ago. RIPE NCC didn’t care about
that, but they changed it without any discussion with members.

Now I want to answer for Important question for those members who wish
to start telling me about something else.... I will give you an answer
here. All RIPE NCC members have the limit for changes/transfers and etc
as 2 years (24 month) of hold time. If this time should be changed -
it’s a way to Policy development process. Everybody believe that
expenses for having extra LIR should be for 2 years (24 month), let’s
say this is what we have and this delay is written in  RIPE NCC
documents. If we want to discuss this time - it's other one discussion.

In real life this 2 years means 3 years (and usually *N). LIRs have to
pay extra membership fees for (3-4 years)*N of LIRs, but not for 2 years
as it should be. I find this unfair for LIRs. I want all LIRs have clear
billing and pay for services/membership that we have really consumed.
This is normal and correct to have clear and good billing.


What do I suggest?

I suggest RIPE NCC do correct accounting for each LIR for the time this
LIR instance exists. If LIR has annual billing - then RIPE NCC should
use it. If LIR selected quarterly billing - RIPE NCC show use. But RIPE
NCC should not overcharge LIRs for the time they didn't give any
services for LIR instance.

Please support me and reply to this email. Or write your opinion.
I believe RIPE NCC should work better for LIRs. Your voice is important.

Juri
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