[members-discuss] Request to update the SSA - Article 2.2, acceptance of documents
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Dmitry Burkov
dvburk at gmail.com
Wed Apr 25 13:12:35 CEST 2018
I hope it is just one more way to sign and not a replacement. We have no harmonised system accross the region. Dima On 4/25/18 1:12 PM, Janos Zsako wrote: > Dear all, > >> I strongly agree with Eric. > > I also strongly agree with his initiative. I think it would be very > nice to > promote the technology of digital signatures, especially as the legal > system > in many of the countries of the RIPE NCC region allows its use. > >> Email is an accepted method of communication for signed contracts etc >> in so many different applications. > > I emphasize here that Eric mentioned only digitally signed documents, not > paper based documents signed by hand, scanned and sent by e-mail. I do > not > support at all the idea to accept the latter. > >> Fax and post are outdated. > > I would not state this. Many companies and individuals feel much more > comfortable with these old technologies than with digital signatures. > I am sure a large number of members would still use postal mail in the > next couple of years. > > Just as Tom, I also thought very few people use a fax machine > nowadays, as > in our environment (the Internet world) this is the case I think, but > I made > some short research not so long ago and found out that in many sectors > it is > still very popular, if one can believe articles like the following one: > https://enterprise.efax.com/blog/the-top-10-reasons-companies-continue-to-fax-in-2017 > > > Also, the decision to accept digitally signed contracts needs some > preparation. > There are a lot of things to think about, including archiving of > certificates, > and sometimes even software implementing some algorithms... > > It is a lot of fun, but I do support the idea, and I would like to see > the > NCC eventually using this technology. At the same time, I think we > have to > allow for some preparation time. > > A similar topic can be the use of digital signatures for invoices sent > out > to members. This could also help saving a couple of trees perhaps. I > know the > NCC does send out invoices by e-mail, but these are not digitally signed. > Signing the invoices could be implemented much easier I think. > > Best regards, > Janos Zsako > > >> Allow email submission! >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> Tom Corney >> >> *From:*members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] *On >> Behalf Of *Erik Bais >> *Sent:* 24 April 2018 16:41 >> *To:* members-discuss at ripe.net >> *Subject:* [members-discuss] Request to update the SSA - Article 2.2, >> acceptance of documents >> >> Dear members, >> >> I like to open a discussion to have the SSA updated into this century >> .. to allow for acceptance of the documents to be send in via the >> RIPE NCC Portal ( with SSO ) or send in by email after being signed, >> or the RIPE NCC to use a method of digital signature like the usage >> of DocuSign, Echosign or something similar. >> >> The acceptance of a digital signature has been allowed by EU law >> since December 1999, ( EU Directive 99/93/EG - >> http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:31999L0093 ) >> and implemented in Dutch law since 2003 >> (http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0015046/2003-05-21) >> >> We are currently in 2018 and the SSA still refers to a device that >> most of our children never heard of or have seen ..... named a fax >> machine… >> >> <snip> >> >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-673 >> >> Article 2 – General >> >> 2.1 The RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement shall come into effect by >> means of an offer and an acceptance. >> >> 2.2 To enter into the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement, the >> following documents have to be sent to the RIPE NCC by post or fax: >> >> ·One copy of the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement containing the >> handwritten signature of an authorised representative of the Member >> >> ·A recent extract from the Commercial Trade Register or equivalent >> document proving the registration of the Member with the national >> authorities. >> >> Upon receipt of these documents by the RIPE NCC, the RIPE NCC >> Standard Service Agreement is considered to be concluded. The RIPE >> NCC shall not commence the provision of the RIPE NCC services until >> these documents have been received. Conclusion of the RIPE NCC >> Standard Service Agreement establishes a RIPE NCC membership. >> >> </snip> >> >> While most of the fax implementations these days, including the one >> at the RIPE NCC office, is a device that stores an image copy of a >> document on a server. Not many companies have a paper print fax >> anymore these days.. >> >> That document from those fax or multi-copier devices can then be >> printed by the local printer or stored digitally in a database >> attached to a LIR application as an attachment. Similar as if someone >> would scan the signed SSA and email the document .. >> >> However the current wording in the SSA doesn’t allow for that type of >> scenario .. and it should be updated to a more neutral wording to >> allow a better usage of technology. >> >> If we can sign for a mortgage application in The Netherlands using a >> digital signature, why can’t we apply for a new LIR with a digital >> signature. >> >> This will also allow for a much smoother new members to complete >> their application .. >> >> Using digital signatures will reduce the fees to DHL, speed up the >> complete on-boarding process and reduce the handling fees at the RIPE >> office. >> >> <sarcasm> >> >> For those that like to keep doing things, like we always did .. The >> city of Amsterdam is also in the process to dis-allow the usage of >> horse and carriage in the city. >> >> So if someone would like to take a ride by horse carriage to the >> postal office and use their fax machine there .. that is something >> that you cannot do for a long time anymore as well … >> https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/na-bierfiets-is-het-ook-einde-verhaal-voor-paardenkoets-in-centrum-amsterdam~a4580876/ >> >> </sarcasm> >> >> And for countries that don’t allow the usage of digital signatures or >> members that don’t want to use the new digital signature system, >> there is always the option to request the paper SSA to be send via >> DHL and have it signed and returned. Similar as we are currently also >> allowing those options for invoices … >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Erik Bais >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Claranet. The >> service is powered by MessageLabs. 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For more information on a proactive >> anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >> http://www.claranet.co.uk >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> members-discuss mailing list >> members-discuss at ripe.net >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >> Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/zsako%40iszt.hu >> > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/dvburk%40gmail.com
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