[members-discuss] Input from Membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Model

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016, Tom Lehtinen wrote:

(...)
> For a new LIR, the annual fee is ?1400 and that comes with a /22. 
> Substracting the credit that was given to the LIRs in the previous years, we 
> end up at a cost of roughly ?1000/year for a LIR. This translates to 
> approximately ?1/IP or ?250 per /24 per year.
> For large holders of IP addresses, such as ISPs which distribute 1 or 2 IP 
> addresses per customer, the cost is minimal per customer. For larger 
> companies, who might for example be using public IP space internally, this 
> could be a good motivator to renumber internally or to hand back unused 
> resources.

As long as making some money from "transferring the right to use" is 
possible, "hand back unused resources" motivation really tends to zero... 
;-))


> As said before, IPv4 addresses are a shared resource and we've 
> almost run out of available ones.

Some members have, some others haven't. But the service region, as a 
collective is almost running out, yes.


> Coming back to the points of RIPE NCC being non-profit, it could also start 
> spending more money to improve the services that it provides. The "About us" 
> page tells us that RIPE NCC works with Internet Governance and External 
> Relations and Outreach. RIPE NCC could sure use more money and resources to

Not really sure about "could sure use more money". Established goals in 
this field aren't being met?


> engage further with regards to these topics. For example, RIPE NCC engages in 
> Roundtable Meetings for governments, regulators and law enforcement agencies 
> and could use these forums to educate these bodies about the importance of 
> safeguarding an open and neutral internet without any artificial hurdles such 
> as zero-rating. blocking of content etc.

There are also other orgs that try to do that. ISOC comes to mind...


> Here, the RIPE NCC could be stand up 
> for an open and transparent internet that follows net neutrality principles. 
> It could also use the money to remove the dependency of sponsors for the RIPE 
> meetings to signal the independence of RIPE.

I would agree with lowering the price of meeting's tickets.
I don't feel the RIPE/NCC (or RIPE) is less independent by having 
sponsors for social events.


> Anyway, I believe that implementing a charge that is based on the size of the 
> IPv4 resource allocation is fair

"fair" to me would sound like covering most of NCC's costs with money 
coming from those members who generate more workload on the NCC.


> and it would line up with RIPE NCC's goal of 
> safeguarding the resources. Whether implementing a cost like the proposed 
> ?250/year per /24 or a fee based on categories such as the other RIRs are 
> imposing, the model needs to be changed.

Strongly disagree.
A fee based on (few) categories (like some years ago...) would be less 
disruptive, if people don't agree we should keep the flat-fee scheme.

If rules are made in order to encourage people to "hand back" (errr... i 
mean, make some money by transferring rights), that might be perceived as 
a way to distort an existing market.

Regards,
Carlos Friaças



> Best regards,
> Tom
>
> On 17.09.2016 22:29, Nigel Titley wrote:
>>  On 17/09/16 11:23, Radu-Adrian Feurdean wrote:
>> 
>> > >  RIPE cannot and will not do this, let me explain why. According to 
>> > >  RIPE,
>> > >  and most RIR's, their stance is that you do not "own" the IP addresses
>> > >  that are given to you, and that they can technically take them back at
>> > 
>> >  ... and then you have the transfer market, where people got IP addresses
>> >  for free some years ago and now they sell them for profit. This the
>> >  starting point of all this. Some LIRs do agree and support the "one does
>> >  NOT own IPs" stance, other don't or no longer do. Generally those that
>> >  need IP space tend to agree, those that have excess not. Of course there
>> >  are exceptions....
>>
>>  The strict status is that LIRs have a right to use an internet resource
>>  (they do not own it). They can transfer that right to use (but not the
>>  resource itself).
>>
>>  Just trying to inject a bit of clarity.
>>
>>  Nigel
>>
>>
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