[members-discuss] Input from Membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Model

Radu,

Can I ask where you found these numbers?



On 09/15/2016 04:40 PM, Radu-Adrian Feurdean wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016, at 14:06, Gert Doering wrote:
>
>> But that's not actually true.  A LIR that just humms along, never sending
>> any request for resources, never opening a ticket will cause nearly no
>> cost - while a LIR that sends in a question every 5 days will cause
>> quite a bit of cost.  Independent of the number of resources they have.
>>
>> Back in the day, a "large LIR" would inevitably send in more requests than
>> a "small LIR" - but since nobody can get extra resources after their last
>> /22, this is no longer true.
>>
>> So, if *cost* is the concern, "startup LIRs that request their first /22"
>> are actually the ones that need most (human) resources, not "old LIRs
>> that have all they will ever get, and never ask for more".  Looking at the
>> training department, who do you think will need more training?  Old and
>> experienced LIRs, or startups?
>>
>> Database costs, housing, electricity are mostly the same, no matter how
>> many resources a LIR has.
> Gert,
>
> While human cost is important (56% of total), it's not the only cost. A
> big old LIR having a /11 (or similar) that fills the DB with 100K
> objects (growing at 10 per week) does generate some indirect work
> (including FTEs), much more than an new LIR that will rarely have more
> than 50 objects.
>
> ... And while the service fee accounts for most of the revenue - 77.5%,
> set-up fees account for other 19% of revenue and are supposed to cover
> typical use of a new member (checks, exchanging documents, allocating 1
> x IPv4, 1 x IPv6 and 1 x ASN - procedures largely simplified recently,
> and not to forget 2 free RIPE meeting tickets that I'm not sure so many
> members use).

According to the financial reports member fee's only make up 66% of the 
entire budget, another 18% come from the setup fee's.
Sponsors, donations etc bring in about 2% and you get another 9% from 1 
time 'New' member fees.

The other 5% comes from Independent INR's and Re-opening fee's.

Going further in, Personnel costs are 59% of RIPEs budget, this is 133 
Full time employees. Wide grand generalization but average cost per 
employee is nearing 100,000 EUR (obviously some make more than others)

Kinda heavy on the employee costs IMO but as long as they do their job 
and do it well not a huge concern in the grand scheme of things since 
they received 5,000 kEUR more than necessary last year.


>
> I would like to have some information of the workload required in order
> to perform transfers (price = ZERO) and M&A (or what's left of it) which
> costs (the LIRs concerned) between (almost) zero and 3/4 of the yearly
> fee (depending on the quarter it has been performed in).

This would be interesting to see, I bet it wouldn't be as high as one 
thinks. Few hundred EUR i bet.
>
> And then there's the issue of non-voting members. Not the ones that have
> less than 6 months at the GM, but those that are "multiple LIRs per
> organisation". While some legal requirements are involved, one may
> easily think about "taxation without representation".

I'm on the fence about multiple LIR's, I can understand it from a 
business / brand / tax purpose. But I do think it's been quite abused 
just to bleed out the last resources.

>
> And sorry to bring this here, but with a policy proposal in the
> discussion phase (2016-03) that aims (among other things) to add some
> form of segregation between LIRs based on what they can do with
> resources received from RIPE NCC, differentiated service fees starts
> making more sense.
>
> Besides, RIPE NCC had differentiated service fees in some form or
> another for about 20 years (until 2012). Since then (barely 4 years)
> membership count increased by more than 50%; voting members count should
> not be far from that.
>