[members-discuss] Input from Membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Model

Hi,


On 15-9-2016 09:46, Carlos Friacas wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2016, Bastien Schils wrote:
>
>>>  Ultimately RIPEs "job" is to maintain a list (DB) and as a community,
>>>  set policy for getting things onto that list.
>>>
>>>  Each LIRs "cost" to RIPE is administrative (membership management,
>>>  sending letters etc) and _somewhat_ proportionate to how much data
>>>  they have in that database (and how much support/manual-work they 
>>> need)
>>>
>>>  The numbers in the "starting ip" and "ending ip" fields don't change
>>>  that cost, effectively a /32 "costs" no more or less than a /8 - 1
>>>  record in a db is 1 record in a db
>>>
>> "We're an independent, not-for-profit membership organisation that 
>> supports the infrastructure of the Internet through technical 
>> coordination in our service region. Our most prominent activity is to 
>> act as the Regional Internet Registry (RIR) providing global Internet 
>> resources and related services (IPv4, IPv6 and AS Number resources) 
>> to members in our service region."
>>
>> It clearly states "providing global Internet resources and related 
>> services" and not "maintaining a DB".
>
> Isn't maintaining a DB part of "related services"?
>

Seems to me it is

>
>
>> The more you use resources, the more you cost to maintain. That seems 
>> fair.
>>
>>> >  Goal: Kill off IPv4 by 2025?
>>>
>>>  A goal to have all "publicly accessible internet devices accessible
>>>  over ipv6" makes sense, but there is (and never will be) a "need" to
>>>  kill off ipv4.
>> We are drifting off topic here. But I suggest that you reconsider 
>> your position.
>
> "Kill off IPv4" doesn't sound like a useful motto...
>
>
>
>>> >  I believe a full switch to IPv6 is everyone's long term interest.
>>>
>>>  It's certainly not in "everyones" interest - there are millions of
>>>  IPv4-only devices out there, it's not in the owners interest to have
>>>  to buy (even if it was possible to replace) new ones.
>> It is in the greater-good's interest.
>
> For me, the thin line (that needs to be crossed) is going from a 
> situation where IPv4 is dominant (and IPv6-only devices need 
> translation services), to a (global) scenario where IPv6 is dominant 
> (and IPv4-only devices need translation services).
>
> Translation is kind of costly, afaik, also performance-wise...
>
>
>>> >  If another LIR has a hundred times more IPv4 addresses than we do,
>>> >  then I'd expect them to pay 100 times (or more) than we do.
>>>
>>>  And therein lies the difference in thinking - if one LIR uses 100
>>>  times the "resources" than another then yes, a larger bill could be
>>>  appropriate. But a range of ips is ultimatley just "1 resource" - it
>>>  doesn't matter about the size of that range.
>> Let's take it from another perspective:
>> If a LIR has 100 more IPs than another, wouldn't it be expected to 
>> think that this LIR is 100 times more likely to need actions from the 
>> RIPE?
>>
>> Well, in my opinion: Yes.
>
> I'm not sure about that..... newcomers (which by the current policy 
> only get a /22) are probably where the NCC is spending the largest 
> part of their effort. Is there any measurement already? Maybe a topic 
> for RIPE Labs? :-)
>
>

Suspect the same.

Furthermore 1 IP != 1 resource, as stated before.


>>>  Making IPv6 resources "cheaper" might be an incentive to adoption, but
>>>  I doubt it.
>>>
>>>  Getting the bulk of "end users" on IPv6 is (and always has been) the
>>>  only real way to drive usage up, and in general end-users neither know
>>>  nor care, IP is IP is IP at the end of the day
>>>
>> Agree.
>
> Yes, transparency to the "end users" is key in this process.
> I'm also not sure how IPv6 resources could get any cheaper.
>

But as it stands, RIPE can lobby for furthering IPv6 but not force it by 
pricing policy. The forces that control IPv6 adoptation within companies 
lie well beyond the reach of RIPE.

Best regards,

Piet

>
> Cheers,
> Carlos
> (pt.rccn)
>
>
>
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