[members-discuss] Executive Board Resolution on Legacy Internet Resource Holders

Hi,

On Sun, 2 Oct 2016, Radu-Adrian Feurdean wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016, at 17:27, Carlos Friacas wrote:
>>> Btw, are there signed contracts certifying that IANA gave ownership to
>>> the initial holders, with the possibility to to whatever they want with
>>> them, forever ?
>>
>> Afaik, no.
>
> This is the main question to be answered.
> If the answer is "NO", then I would like to understand why the RIRs
> cannot do watver they want with the legacy space "managed" by them.

The legacy space ISN'T managed by the RIRs.

Space was distributed by IANA simply by e-mail (afaik) to LRHs, BEFORE
the RIRs were even created, and then, some years later, after RIRs were 
established, the RIRs (themselves?) thought it would be a good idea to 
maintain records on each holders' RIR service region -- and then the ERX 
project came to light.
I'm not sure the holders' were even asked about this, but the alternative 
would be to keep the records where they were, or create a new (global?) 
organization in order to keep those records.


> If the answer is "YES", then that would be for me a good starting point
> into accepting the current situation.

I guess an e-mail message, in some parts of the (non-virtual) world might 
be considered as "good documentation" -- or a contract...?


> But on the other side, it seems that not all RIRs have such a "friendly"
> stance towards LRHs (towards LEGACY in general).

Where did you get that idea? pointers...?


>>> Is there some copyright or patent on those legacy blocks or address
>>> space (I know it sounds stupid) ?
>>
>> Maybe a 3rd option... "ownership"? :-)
>
> It's not becayse you have always been named Carlos that you own the
> name. In fact you don't.

It's a bit different. "Carlos" is not a unique identifier. Even my four 
names are not a unique identifier (roughly it is because my surname is 
really rare...).
If an authority distributes space, i guess only that authority might 
be able to revoke that distribution act...


> And I doubt anyone owns the number 1 (or 42, or whatever) ot the letter
> A.

Look, even who received x.y.z.w/mask from IANA is not the owner of that 
number in all existing contexts -- it is only the owner in the IP world 
context. I didn't write "Internet", because several unique blocks were 
distributed and never got out of a private domain. But, even if a block 
is only used privately (very useful when you experience mergers...), you 
can't have a different org using it on the Internet context.


> Intellectual property only exists because there are laws allowing it to
> exist and specifying in what circumstances it can exist and what is it's
> extent.

Sure. Again, i don't think the IP space distributed by IANA falls 
under intellectual property...


>> Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think both the RIR community and the LRHs
>> strongly prefer to sort out all details without running to arbitration, or... courts.
>
> Usually yes, but sometimes it's only the courts that can definitely
> decide how things must be.

A dutch court, a portuguese court and a romanian court might decide 
differently on the same case... which law should apply? The recipient 
coutry's law and/or IANA's?


Cheers,
Carlos Friaças
(pt.rccn)