[members-discuss] YNT: Re: YNT: Re: [comms] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple

I'm concerned about the direction this discussion is taking because it 
seems to be focusing on the behaviour of a tiny minority of members.  
The majority of us would welcome the ability to obtain another /22 or 
two for legitimate purposes.

Any changes made to combat practices of a tiny minority of members may 
have unintended consequences for many and impact on small LIR's like mine.

Think long and hard before legislating.

Thanks

Ian



On 17/02/2016 15:34, Cahit Eyigünlü wrote:
>
> And probably they offer to Block multi accounts because they earn too 
> much
>
> But we are paying for nembership not the ip addresses so they need to 
> give back the ip addresses to ripe whatsapp they already never owned 
> forever by theme
>
> Sony Xperia™ akıllı telefonumdan gönderildi
>
>
>
> ---- Jivko Jelev şunu yazdı ----
>
> I agree ... Big Lir make alot of money to rent ipv4 space !!!!  this 
> problem must be resove !!!
>
> On 17-Feb-16 5:27 PM, Cahit Eyigünlü wrote:
>>
>> Why do you think this is A problem?
>> If you have free space you need to share it not sell or rent
>> This is Why there is too many accounts multiple
>> Lots of company holding ip addresses more then they need!!
>>
>> Sony Xperia™ akıllı telefonumdan gönderildi
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Olorin Henderson şunu yazdı ----
>>
>> That isn't practical.
>>
>> What happens if an entity with an LIR account is purchased by another 
>> entity with an LIR account; they would have to merge or move IPs from 
>> one to another. Your proposed policy would prohibit this, therefore 
>> complicating or potentially prohibiting the sale and acquisition of 
>> web hosts.
>>
>> Kindest regards,
>>
>> --
>>
>> Olorin Henderson,
>> Operations Director,
>>
>> Cloud Unboxed Limited
>>
>> *w:* cloudunboxed.net <http://www.cloudunboxed.net/> | *e:* 
>> <mailto:olorin.henderson at cloudunboxed.net>olorin.henderson at cloudunboxed.net | 
>> *t:* +44 (0)33 0088 2444
>>
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>>> On 17/02/2016 15:18:41, Kampen, Niels van <nvkampen at sligro.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>> Shouldn't this problem be solved on a higher level (IANA)? Or create 
>>> a workgroup open to the other RIR's as well so we can solve this 
>>> globally?
>>> Finding a solution that doesn't mean a huge increase in 
>>> administrative work for the NCC or making the request procedure 
>>> almost impossible for new LIR's is not a solution.
>>> Could be as easy as making the initial /22 of a LIR 
>>> non-transferable? If you want more IP space to rent/lease/sell you 
>>> can buy additional space from the RIR or other brokers.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Niels
>>>
>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>> Van: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] 
>>> Namens Lu Heng
>>> Verzonden: woensdag 17 februari 2016 15:43
>>> Aan: Sebastian Wiesinger
>>> CC: members-discuss at ripe.net
>>> Onderwerp: Re: [members-discuss] [comms] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE 
>>> NCC Members and Multiple
>>>
>>> Guys:
>>>
>>> take the wealth of rich people, distribute it amount everybody, and 
>>> everybody get fair share and working for a central planning economy, 
>>> does it sound familiar if you happen to be from one of communist 
>>> countries?(I heard that quite often as I was born in one of 
>>> communist countries, although if it is still communist are very 
>>> debatable.)
>>>
>>> Central administration and central planning will require a large 
>>> central administrative power with enforce body, Ripe NCC does not 
>>> have the power either has the ability to enforce such thing, even it 
>>> does have such power, history has told us such thing really doesn't 
>>> work.
>>> Centralised resource planning only results corruption and less 
>>> effective economy.
>>>
>>> The founder of Ripe community, Rob, alone with many other original 
>>> starter Ripe community, said very wisely, "Ripe NCC are only a 
>>> bookkeeper". and still till today I believe such fundamental value 
>>> are very important to the very existence of RIR system, without 
>>> claiming any power, therefore left RIPE NCC doing what it should be 
>>> doing, be a registry and record resource whom using it, while 
>>> protecting itself from any management/administration function(in 
>>> which means power), so no government can come ask RIPE NCC to 
>>> enforce anything, or even worse, seeking control of RIPE NCC.
>>>
>>> Please, leave RIPE NCC to be a simple book keeper and if you really 
>>> wants to enforce something, go to your local government and propose 
>>> a legislation, banning IPv4 transfer and ask big guy give you their 
>>> unused IPv4 for example, just like the some government in history 
>>> taken wealth from rich people give to the poor ones, they are the 
>>> enforcing body, and they have the ability to re-distribute any 
>>> resource they want.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Sebastian Wiesinger wrote:
>>> > * iODC Hostmaster [2016-02-17 15:18]:
>>> >> Why it is bad to sell IP's?
>>> >
>>> >> Take a look at the RIPE market... Prices are INSANE, and RIPE is
>>> >> being maximum abused by "brokers" - that's why it is bad, that IP's
>>> >> can be sold, nevertheless it is the reason why it should not be
>>> >> possible to sell!
>>> >
>>> > We had this discussion even before there *was* a transfer market. IPs
>>> > WILL get transferred, money WILL be paid. The only thing that RIPE 
>>> NCC
>>> > did was to make it possible to document these transfers in the
>>> > database. Before that there was chaos. There is practically NOTHING
>>> > the NCC can do about the transfers happening. We had this discussions
>>> > long ago. We saw it coming. People ignored IPv6. This is the result.
>>> >
>>> > I'm so tired talking about this. IPv4 is over and done and because
>>> > people ignored this for a decade we're forced to fight against other
>>> > people trying to make money from the last pool that was explicitly
>>> > created to allow newcomes to enter a market that ONLY exists because
>>> > others decided they did not want to invest into IPv6.
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> >
>>> > Sebastian
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > noris network AG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 16-20 - D-90471 Nürnberg Tel
>>> > +49-911-9352-1335 - Fax +49-911-9352-100
>>> >
>>> > http://www.noris.de - The IT-Outsourcing Company
>>> >
>>> > Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel - Vorsitzender 
>>> des
>>> > Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG Nürnberg HRB 17689
>>> >
>>> > ----
>>> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>>> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to 
>>> the general page:
>>> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>> >
>>> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". 
>>> From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> -- 
>>> Kind regards.
>>> Lu
>>>
>>> ----
>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC 
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>>>
>>> **************************************************************************** 
>>>
>>> Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen.
>>> **************************************************************************** 
>>>
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>
> -- 
> Jivko Jelev
>
> General Manager ITNS Global - Bulgaria
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