[members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area

Semenenko,

I am not at all disputing the need to use RU-addresses to get their postal
mail. Seems entirely understandable. I also fully grasp the need to
maintain Internet Services ESPECIALLY during a time like this.

I just don't fully grasp how they managed to get the paperwork approved.
That's what I'm curious about. Or, what sort of papers they used, and from
where. That part does matter, to me. I will have to assume RIPE NCC had
enough to feel comfortable with renaming the LIR. In my personal
experience, it is somewhat hard to get them to feel comfortable with that,
even if you try to move between two very not disputed areas, in mainstream
EU-land. It still takes lots of paperwork. So, I guess I wonder what
paperwork can really exist in that region at this point, that would be of
equal quality and legitimacy to the list of papers I had to submit.

As for the politics. I agree; that does not belong here.

JB

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Semenenko Mikhail <MSemenenko at beeline.kz>
wrote:

> Hello, RIPE-members.
>
> Donetsk/Lugansk are located in Ukraine. But... now when Ukraine cut off
> any communications to him, it's not better time for chicanery about
> addressess.
>
> Frases "DNR itself is a terroristic organization" and etc. it's real
> political games.
>
> I agree RIPE position in this question. Let's close this discussion.
>
> Mikhail Semenenko
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf
> Of Andrei Kushnireuski
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 5:57 PM
> To: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Cc: Andrea Cima
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area
>
> Johan,
>
> Where did you find political debates? As Alexey told you
>
> 1) There is no information about  “Center of Internet services in DNR”
> (Центр интернет-поддержки ДНР) in  http://egrul.nalog.ru/ database
>
> 2) Donetsk/Lugansk are located in Ukraine (not Russian Federation). If you
> have alternative point of view please provide us proofs.
>
> 3) When Sergey Myasoedov started this discussion the organization address
> was Lugansk, Russian Federation but now it’s updated to Donetsk, Russian
> Federation.
>
> Both addresses are invalid and don’t meet RIPE policies.
>
>
> I placed Andrea’s email to the CC to pay his attention to this issue..
> because this situation is NOT normal and overshadow to RIPE NCC.
>
> Thanks.
>
> ---
> Andrei.
>
>
>
>
> > On 30 Jun 2015, at 13:45, Johan Boger <johan at robtex.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hey all,
> >
> > While I agree RIPE NCC should not get involved in political debates,
> they should, however, make sure all papers are legal in the nation they
> were issued. As for disputed regions, I realize it is difficult and
> something perhaps not possible for RIPE NCC to decide who is right in an
> interim period, and just what a "nation" constitutes. We have to remember
> that changes in geography usually happens as a result of some sort of war
> or invasion, and is rarely something all involved parties agree on (except
> in post-war situations in the form of treaties - and even then, it's a
> compromise at best after having lost).
> >
> > However, having said that, it is curious I had to send about 25
> documents back and forth while renaming a LIR and moving it to a different
> geographical location. The requirements for legal papers issued in both
> countries were a must then, and I had to submit information from various
> government entities in both nations. So I do wonder a bit why this was so
> easily pushed through. Was it perhaps pushed through simply BECAUSE the
> RIPE NCC felt it was a political issue and not something they should touch
> (so perhaps they didn't apply full scrutiny to documentation out of fear
> for touching the untouchables?).
> >
> > If I am entirely out of line or out of sync with procedures, I apologize.
> >
> > Just an observation.
> >
> > PS. To mailing list admin: please ignore my email in the queue sent from
> team at robtex.com. My subscribed email is johan at robtex.com, so naturally
> that bounced. DS.
> >
> > - Johan Boger, AS48285.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Samorukov,Alexey <samm at net-art.cz>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> To clarify matters relating to the discussion on LIRs from the
> >> Donetsk area, I would like to remind you of the RIPE NCC Executive
> >> Board's resolution on continuity to service to all members. Please
> >> see the statement at:
> >>
> >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/execut
> >> ive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-member
> >> s
> >>
> >> The RIPE NCC needs to confirm that an entity exists. Dutch law does
> >> not restrict the RIPE NCC from using any means it finds appropriate
> >> as proof that a legal entity exists. Documents issued by any national
> >> authority are considered to be sufficient proof.
> >
> > Thank you for reply, it would be great to have some clarifications, if
> possible.
> >
> > Does it mean that organization "Center of Internet services in DNR” is
> exists in Russia? I cant find any references to it in the registries. Also
> it is not clear what is “national authority” here. Admin-c and tech-c
> numbers are with Ukrainian prefix. Lugansk is Ukrainian city. DNR itself is
> a terroristic organization which is located in the Donetsk area (not
> Lugansk, btw). Could you please check and confirm that all documents were
> checked properly?
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > ----
> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
> >
> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
> > e: johan at robtex.com
> > w: http://www.robtex.com
> > ----
> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
> >
> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>
>
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>
> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>
> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>



-- 
Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
e: johan at robtex.com
w: http://www.robtex.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/attachments/20150630/664a654e/attachment.html>