[members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area

All of that may be true, Alexandr, but I would still like to review the
documentation that made RIPE NCC go "this seems legit" ( of course I have
no right to do so, I assume ). Because I very rarely succeed with that,
even when I am undoubtedly legit in my requests. And if I succeed, it is
after extensive paperwork-shuffling including lots of organizations and
legal entities. This seems like a fairly similar scenario. Renaming the
LIR, and thus effectively moving it. So, I assume they too had to provide
tonnes of documentation from both RU and UA to justify the new RU-prefix. I
just don't fully grasp what kind of documentation that can be. In that
region. At this point in time.

-JB

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Alexandr Popov <alexp at lec.tel> wrote:

> 1. http://egrul.nalog.ru/ database contains not the entire list of
> organizations from Russia. There's must be only commercial organizations.
> “Center of Internet services in DNR” may be a non-profit organization.
> 2. Russian organization may have an office in Ukraine, as Ukrainian in
> Russia. There is nothing illegal.
> 3. Delivery of mail to these cities through Russia much easier than
> through Ukraine.
>
>
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 13:57:21 +0200
>  Andrei Kushnireuski <ipas.master at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Johan,
>>
>> Where did you find political debates? As Alexey told you
>>
>> 1) There is no information about  “Center of Internet services in DNR”
>> (Центр интернет-поддержки ДНР) in  http://egrul.nalog.ru/ database
>> 2) Donetsk/Lugansk are located in Ukraine (not Russian Federation). If
>> you have alternative point of view please provide us proofs.
>>
>> 3) When Sergey Myasoedov started this discussion the organization address
>> was Lugansk, Russian Federation but now it’s updated to Donetsk, Russian
>> Federation.
>>
>> Both addresses are invalid and don’t meet RIPE policies.
>>
>>
>> I placed Andrea’s email to the CC to pay his attention to this issue..
>> because this situation is NOT normal and overshadow to RIPE NCC.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> ---
>> Andrei.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  On 30 Jun 2015, at 13:45, Johan Boger <johan at robtex.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> While I agree RIPE NCC should not get involved in political debates,
>>> they should, however, make sure all papers are legal in the nation they
>>> were issued. As for disputed regions, I realize it is difficult and
>>> something perhaps not possible for RIPE NCC to decide who is right in an
>>> interim period, and just what a "nation" constitutes. We have to remember
>>> that changes in geography usually happens as a result of some sort of war
>>> or invasion, and is rarely something all involved parties agree on (except
>>> in post-war situations in the form of treaties - and even then, it's a
>>> compromise at best after having lost).
>>> However, having said that, it is curious I had to send about 25
>>> documents back and forth while renaming a LIR and moving it to a different
>>> geographical location. The requirements for legal papers issued in both
>>> countries were a must then, and I had to submit information from various
>>> government entities in both nations. So I do wonder a bit why this was so
>>> easily pushed through. Was it perhaps pushed through simply BECAUSE the
>>> RIPE NCC felt it was a political issue and not something they should touch
>>> (so perhaps they didn't apply full scrutiny to documentation out of fear
>>> for touching the untouchables?).
>>> If I am entirely out of line or out of sync with procedures, I apologize.
>>>
>>> Just an observation.
>>> PS. To mailing list admin: please ignore my email in the queue sent from
>>> team at robtex.com. My subscribed email is johan at robtex.com, so naturally
>>> that bounced. DS.
>>> - Johan Boger, AS48285.
>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Samorukov,Alexey <samm at net-art.cz>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> To clarify matters relating to the discussion on LIRs from the Donetsk
>>>> area, I would like to remind you of the RIPE NCC Executive Board's
>>>> resolution on continuity to service to all members. Please see the
>>>> statement at:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-members
>>>>
>>>> The RIPE NCC needs to confirm that an entity exists. Dutch law does not
>>>> restrict the RIPE NCC from using any means it finds appropriate as proof
>>>> that a legal entity exists. Documents issued by any national authority
>>>> are considered to be sufficient proof.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for reply, it would be great to have some clarifications, if
>>> possible.
>>> Does it mean that organization "Center of Internet services in DNR” is
>>> exists in Russia? I cant find any references to it in the registries. Also
>>> it is not clear what is “national authority” here. Admin-c and tech-c
>>> numbers are with Ukrainian prefix. Lugansk is Ukrainian city. DNR itself is
>>> a terroristic organization which is located in the Donetsk area (not
>>> Lugansk, btw). Could you please check and confirm that all documents were
>>> checked properly?
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> ----
>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
>>> general page:
>>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>>
>>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
>>> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
>>> e: johan at robtex.com
>>> w: http://www.robtex.com
>>> ----
>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
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>>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>>
>>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
>>> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ----
>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
>> general page:
>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>
>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
>> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>
>
>
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>
> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>



-- 
Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
e: johan at robtex.com
w: http://www.robtex.com
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