[members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area

Not sure why, but "Swiss Network SA Technical Support" keeps creating
tickets for me every time I email this list. And not only them. Do people
have ticket system-addresses as their subscribed emails?

"[image: Swiss Network SA] <http://www.swissnetwork.ch/>

Johan Boger,

Thank you for contacting our support team. A support ticket has now been
opened for your request. You will be notified when a response is made by
email. The details of your ticket are shown below.

Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area
Priority: Medium
Status: Open

You can view the ticket at any time at
https://www.swissnetwork.ch/members/viewticket.php?tid=2015-06-30-296&c=2EndH9P0
"


Am I doing something wrong, or are they in fact using a ticket system
address to subscribe to here?

-JB

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Johan Boger <johan at robtex.com> wrote:

> Dear Andrei and other colleagues,
>
> I fully agree with all three statements above. Not sure why you think I do
> not. I was saying I find it odd this was approved by RIPE NCC given the
> very tricky political situation and the questionable legality of any
> documents issued by the Russian Federation, concerning this region at this
> point in time. My personal opinion is best kept to myself, but let's say
> I'm not on Russia's side. I am, after all, Swedish. But, that's for another
> discussion, at another forum. I am not a political expert on the conflict,
> and even if I were, I am not here to discuss that.
>
> I also said that it was curious I had to provide an enormous amount of
> documents to transfer a LIR from one nation to another. It took a long time
> and lots of emails back and forth to get it approved. Now, that was between
> two nations in the EU, both fully acknowledged by all nations on the
> planet, and with documentation from both company registries in both
> nations, as well as all company documentation (incorporation certificates
> and other legal stuff). I wonder if they truly managed to get legal
> documentation produced by both parties in this dispute. I seriously doubt
> it. But, perhaps it is not a requirement. Perhaps it does not include new
> LIRs, and that there are more requirements for moving a LIR than there is
> for creating one. But that also sounds a bit skewed, to me personally.
>
> -JB
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Andrei Kushnireuski <
> ipas.master at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Johan,
>>
>> Where did you find political debates? As Alexey told you
>>
>> 1) There is no information about  “Center of Internet services in DNR”
>> (Центр интернет-поддержки ДНР) in  http://egrul.nalog.ru/ database
>>
>> 2) Donetsk/Lugansk are located in Ukraine (not Russian Federation). If
>> you have alternative point of view please provide us proofs.
>>
>> 3) When Sergey Myasoedov started this discussion the organization address
>> was Lugansk, Russian Federation but now it’s updated to Donetsk, Russian
>> Federation.
>>
>> Both addresses are invalid and don’t meet RIPE policies.
>>
>>
>> I placed Andrea’s email to the CC to pay his attention to this issue..
>> because this situation is NOT normal and overshadow to RIPE NCC.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> ---
>> Andrei.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 30 Jun 2015, at 13:45, Johan Boger <johan at robtex.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey all,
>> >
>> > While I agree RIPE NCC should not get involved in political debates,
>> they should, however, make sure all papers are legal in the nation they
>> were issued. As for disputed regions, I realize it is difficult and
>> something perhaps not possible for RIPE NCC to decide who is right in an
>> interim period, and just what a "nation" constitutes. We have to remember
>> that changes in geography usually happens as a result of some sort of war
>> or invasion, and is rarely something all involved parties agree on (except
>> in post-war situations in the form of treaties - and even then, it's a
>> compromise at best after having lost).
>> >
>> > However, having said that, it is curious I had to send about 25
>> documents back and forth while renaming a LIR and moving it to a different
>> geographical location. The requirements for legal papers issued in both
>> countries were a must then, and I had to submit information from various
>> government entities in both nations. So I do wonder a bit why this was so
>> easily pushed through. Was it perhaps pushed through simply BECAUSE the
>> RIPE NCC felt it was a political issue and not something they should touch
>> (so perhaps they didn't apply full scrutiny to documentation out of fear
>> for touching the untouchables?).
>> >
>> > If I am entirely out of line or out of sync with procedures, I
>> apologize.
>> >
>> > Just an observation.
>> >
>> > PS. To mailing list admin: please ignore my email in the queue sent
>> from team at robtex.com. My subscribed email is johan at robtex.com, so
>> naturally that bounced. DS.
>> >
>> > - Johan Boger, AS48285.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Samorukov,Alexey <samm at net-art.cz>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> To clarify matters relating to the discussion on LIRs from the Donetsk
>> >> area, I would like to remind you of the RIPE NCC Executive Board's
>> >> resolution on continuity to service to all members. Please see the
>> >> statement at:
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-members
>> >>
>> >> The RIPE NCC needs to confirm that an entity exists. Dutch law does not
>> >> restrict the RIPE NCC from using any means it finds appropriate as
>> proof
>> >> that a legal entity exists. Documents issued by any national authority
>> >> are considered to be sufficient proof.
>> >
>> > Thank you for reply, it would be great to have some clarifications, if
>> possible.
>> >
>> > Does it mean that organization "Center of Internet services in DNR” is
>> exists in Russia? I cant find any references to it in the registries. Also
>> it is not clear what is “national authority” here. Admin-c and tech-c
>> numbers are with Ukrainian prefix. Lugansk is Ukrainian city. DNR itself is
>> a terroristic organization which is located in the Donetsk area (not
>> Lugansk, btw). Could you please check and confirm that all documents were
>> checked properly?
>> >
>> > Thank you.
>> >
>> > ----
>> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
>> general page:
>> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>> >
>> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
>> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
>> > e: johan at robtex.com
>> > w: http://www.robtex.com
>> > ----
>> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
>> general page:
>> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>> >
>> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
>> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>
>>
>> ----
>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
>> general page:
>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>
>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
>> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
> e: johan at robtex.com
> w: http://www.robtex.com
>



-- 
Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
e: johan at robtex.com
w: http://www.robtex.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/attachments/20150630/f1a9c7c0/attachment.html>