[members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area

The RIPE FAQ [1] states that “Any legal entity or natural person can become a 
member of RIPE NCC,” and that “official registration papers are the trade 
register documents that prove your company is a registered legal entity, 
authorised to carry out business activities in your country.” The Black’s Law 
Dictionary (2nd Ed.) defines a Legal Entity as “A lawful or legally standing 
association, corporation, partnership, proprietorship, trust, or individual. Has 
legal capacity to (1) enter into agreements or contracts, (2) assume 
obligations, (3) incur and pay debts, (4) sue and be sued in its own right, and 
(5) to be accountable for illegal activities.” It is reasonable to assume that 
those capacities are enabled by the Government, in particular via registration 
of a Legal Entity within the corresponding institution of the said Government. 
Which Government exactly a Legal Entity should be registered by, then? I think 
it is reasonable to assume that the locality of the Government should be defined 
by the Boundaries of the administrative area (a country, for example) where the 
Legal Entity is registered. If a Legal Entity is located in Russian Federation 
then it has to be registered by the Government of the Russian Federation. What 
defines the Government's Boundaries then, often blurred by wars and disputes, as 
we all observe? For this purpose, examples can be provided for multiple options:

1) GADM [2]
2) Wikimedia Commons Atlas of the World [3]
3) Commercial providers, e.g. VDS, Esri, etc [4, 5]
4) International organizations, such as NATO, UN [6, 7]

Thus, establishing the Boundary of a Government that is entitled to register a 
Legal Entity in one or another country within the RIPE region appears to be 
fully possible. If we consider ORG-OISI2-RIPE, the registration within RIPE is 
clearly corrupt, as with its address provided as is, the Russian Federation, 
according to its Boundaries defined above, does not have capacity to register 
Legal Entities in Lugansk and enable their capacities. This leads all of us to 
believe that the organization behind the ORG-OISI2-RIPE record is clearly NOT a 
Legal Entity, and, thus, may contradict RIPE’s policies.

References

[1] https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/info/faqs/faq-joining
[2] http://www.gadm.org
[3] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Atlas_of_first-level_administrative_divisions
[4] http://www.vdstech.com/world-data.aspx
[5] http://www.arcgis.com/home/item.html?id=d86e32ea12a64727b9e94d6f820123a2
[6] http://www.nato.int/nato-on-duty/
[7] http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/world.pdf

Regards,

Maxim Usatov, Founder and CTO * BusinessCom Networks


On 6/30/15 13:45, Johan Boger wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> While I agree RIPE NCC should not get involved in political debates, they 
> should, however, make sure all papers are legal in the nation they were 
> issued. As for disputed regions, I realize it is difficult and something 
> perhaps not possible for RIPE NCC to decide who is right in an interim period, 
> and just what a "nation" constitutes. We have to remember that changes in 
> geography usually happens as a result of some sort of war or invasion, and is 
> rarely something all involved parties agree on (except in post-war situations 
> in the form of treaties - and even then, it's a compromise at best after 
> having lost).
>
> However, having said that, it is curious I had to send about 25 documents back 
> and forth while renaming a LIR and moving it to a different geographical 
> location. The requirements for legal papers issued in both countries were a 
> must then, and I had to submit information from various government entities in 
> both nations. So I do wonder a bit why this was so easily pushed through. Was 
> it perhaps pushed through simply BECAUSE the RIPE NCC felt it was a political 
> issue and not something they should touch (so perhaps they didn't apply full 
> scrutiny to documentation out of fear for touching the untouchables?).
>
> If I am entirely out of line or out of sync with procedures, I apologize.
>
> Just an observation.
>
> PS. To mailing list admin: please ignore my email in the queue sent from 
> team at robtex.com <mailto:team at robtex.com>. My subscribed email is 
> johan at robtex.com <mailto:johan at robtex.com>, so naturally that bounced. DS.
>
> - Johan Boger, AS48285.
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Samorukov,Alexey <samm at net-art.cz 
> <mailto:samm at net-art.cz>> wrote:
>
>>
>>     To clarify matters relating to the discussion on LIRs from the Donetsk
>>     area, I would like to remind you of the RIPE NCC Executive Board's
>>     resolution on continuity to service to all members. Please see the
>>     statement at:
>>
>>     https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-members
>>
>>     The RIPE NCC needs to confirm that an entity exists. Dutch law does not
>>     restrict the RIPE NCC from using any means it finds appropriate as proof
>>     that a legal entity exists. Documents issued by any national authority
>>     are considered to be sufficient proof.
>
>     Thank you for reply, it would be great to have some clarifications, if
>     possible.
>
>     Does it mean that organization "Center of Internet services in DNR” is
>     exists in Russia? I cant find any references to it in the registries. Also
>     it is not clear what is “national authority” here. Admin-c and tech-c
>     numbers are with Ukrainian prefix. Lugansk is Ukrainian city. DNR itself
>     is a terroristic organization which is located in the Donetsk area (not
>     Lugansk, btw). Could you please check and confirm that all documents were
>     checked properly?
>
>     Thank you.
>
>     ----
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
> e: johan at robtex.com <mailto:johan at robtex.com>
> w: http://www.robtex.com
>
>
> ----
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