[members-discuss] [csstaff] Complaints against LIRs ignored by NCC

Dear William,

As discussed over several mails, the RIPE NCC has followed the policies
and procedures outlined by the RIPE community and available on our
website. The RIPE NCC carefully developed and documented its procedures
to ensure transparency, fairness and consistency in the run-up to the
last /8 of IPv4 address space. More details on those procedures are
available at:
http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/ipv4-exhaustion/reaching-the-last-8-transparency-fairness-and-consistency

Your escalation of this matter has risen through the different RIPE NCC
management layers to ensure due diligence.

Regarding the usage of Internet number resources in other regions:

The RIPE NCC allocates/assigns address space to organisations that have
a need in the RIPE NCC service region. The address space must be
originated from the RIPE NCC service region. In addition to this there
can be announcements from other regions due to the diverse nature of
businesses.

The RIPE community has not installed any specific policies to track,
measure or restrict the usage of Internet number resources.

Such discussions have taken place among the RIPE community but also in
other regions such as ARIN:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/address-policy-wg/2012-May/thread.html#start
(Any-cast or uni-cast solutions)

https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_32/webcast/2013-6.mov

If you would like to propose a policy to the RIPE community that would
address any of the issues you are concerned with, the RIPE NCC Policy
Development Office (PDO) can support you in explaining the process to be
followed.

RIPE Policy Development:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies

Please let me know if you would like me to put you in touch with the
RIPE NCC PDO.

Kind regards,
Andrew de la Haye


On Nov 21, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]" <admin at inasset.es> wrote:

> 
> Mr. Lu,
> 
> The best interests of RIPE NCC members are clearly expressed in its Policies.
> 
> You and/or your organization (or any other, for this matter) must comply with them.  If not, you are subject to a LIR Audit.
> 
> Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]
> 
> El 21/11/2013, a las 16:44, H.Lu <h.lu at anytimechinese.com> escribió:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> We do not want to sue "anybody" here, sorry for mistyping English.
>> 
>> we followed all the process in the Ripe region, and I personally involved and participated in the Ripe policy development process,
>> 
>> To inasset network:
>> 
>> I wonder how you as single organization define "best interest of ripe member" and justifying other member's IP usage?
>> Kind regards
>> 
>> Lu
>> 
>> On 2013-11-21, at 下午12:26, "Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]" <admin at inasset.es> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Good Afternoon (in Europe)
>>> 
>>> Mr. Lu, we will follow your activities closely, and see if RIPE NCC takes action in the event the use of your assigned space is not in the best interest of its members.
>>> 
>>> For now, we would like to know why you are announcing RIPE NCC space in ARIN.
>>> 
>>> Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]
>>> 
>>> El 21/11/2013, a las 16:02, H.Lu <h.lu at anytimechinese.com> escribió:
>>> 
>>>> Hi:
>>>> 
>>>> What a surprise morning.
>>>> 
>>>> I think it was talking about me and my company.
>>>> 
>>>> To clarify few things, the justification process of our application took very long in ripe NCC and I believe ripe NCC investigate about us heavily in the major service we provided at the time of it being justified. and corruption claim are very much inappreicate and I would ask you apologizes to Ripe NCC.
>>>> 
>>>> Me as individual as been actively involved in the ripe community in past 5 years, and I believe most active member in the list knowing me personally.
>>>> 
>>>> I wondering where you have the inaccurate income data about me personally and my  private company as well. as it can not be obtain legally and the data was not correct. I personally owing quite few companies worldwide but they are all private companies I do not feel the need to share our financial details publicly.
>>>> 
>>>> Most part of our business are confidential so sorry we can not provide more details here, like every request, Member base are trusting Ripe NCC to make the right decision at the time of application. That is how business really works, only Ripe NCC has rights to getting into confidential area of member's business, otherwise I believe every member would have to publish 
>>>>  every detail about their business to the public.
>>>> 
>>>> And I would ask if you do have more questions for me,  as long as it is not confidential, I'd like to share my stories with you. Please do not bother Ripe NCC for this matter any more.
>>>> 
>>>> At this point, Ripe NCC are just a book keeper for its members and Ripe community, they are not police force, if you do feel we have some unlawful practice--thought I seriously doubt about it, please contact related law enforcement and we are very happy to assist in the matter with them.
>>>> 
>>>> Last but not least, as I just had phone call with my lawyer,  making an criminal charge(corruption) to Ripe NCC, inaccurate publish our private income data in the public space without supporting evidence are very serious offense under european law, although my lawyer strongly suggest him to write the letter, I insists my self to write here just because I would appreciate member's understanding and community's support.
>>>> 
>>>> Let me know if you still have more questions.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> 
>>>> Lu
>>>> 
>>>> On 2013-11-21, at 上午11:05, William Weber <ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> As RIPE seems to have decided that i can be ignored and no one needs to reply to me i make this public now as threatened to them before - See Dear Andrew, i don't care what you say - if you don't reply me with anything useful then i take steps to get others involved.
>>>>> This is not the first time i reported a LIR for evaluation and was ignored.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I waited over a month for any reply and sent multiple follow up mails, no replies and the ticket is "open" in the Lirportal, now the last reply i got was again useless and without any interest (No Andrew, i cannot use the LIR<>LIR report form to report LIR<>RIPE, i can't even enter that there.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Theres some more fun to be had, here's a text i prepared before i sent my mail to RIPE after some investigations (which merely took 10 minutes time and a few calls to some associates) - Now, isn't that proof enough for an evaluation?
>>>>> I think so and the other LIRs i represent do as well, but make your own picture.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Today we follow an interesting 'ISP' which is based on a sole-trader in the Netherlands which managed to have RIPE/Afrinic/ARIN assign him IPv4 space totaling to a /8:
>>>>> 
>>>>> His name is Heng Lu, also known as "OutsideHeaven" - http://outsideheaven.com
>>>>> Seemingly based in the Netherlands Lu is of Chinese origin and does (as far as informations go) not live in Europe at all.
>>>>> 
>>>>> First being a customer of OVH and having his IP space announced on OVHs AS now most space seems to be announced by Los Angeles based ISP Multacom (AS35916).
>>>>> 
>>>>> A short view on the website shows that no real services are provided yet massive amounts of IPs are registered to him personally, him as sole trader or his companies at all RIRs:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is an AFRINIC net assigned to a company in the Seychelles ("Abacus (Seychelles) Limited"), the Person handle and mail shows the connection to OutsideHeaven.
>>>>> The network itself contains smaller assignments, all with the descr of "CloudInnovation infrastructure" and various countries set (AD, SD, YT….), most IPs are not announced at all and seem unused.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs
>>>>> 
>>>>> A RIPE network from 2012.09 announced by Multacom in LAX outside of the RIPE region.
>>>>> Seems unused.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs
>>>>> 
>>>>> RIPE network dating to 2012.07 (Just 3 months after the /15 was allocated, exactly the timeframe RIPE required a space to be used in to get a new one…), announced on OVH.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yet another RIPE network from 2012.04 (who can spell 'bribe'?) announced by OVH on France, unused as well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs
>>>>> 
>>>>> Allocated 2010.11 - Announced by a datacenter in the Netherlands, unused.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2011.04 - Announced in LAX/Multacom.
>>>>> 
>>>>> List (not complete, there is more smaller assignments on him):
>>>>> 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs
>>>>> 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs    - 2012.09
>>>>> 5.224.0.0/15  - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09
>>>>> 5.132.0.0/16  - RIPE - 65.534 IPs  - 2012.07
>>>>> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04
>>>>> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs  - 2011.04
>>>>> 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs  - 2010.11
>>>>> 178.236.224.0/20 - RIPE - 4096 IPs - 2010.06
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> William Weber | RIPE Person: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh (among others)
>>>>> william at edisglobal.com | william at william.si | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net
>>>>> EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC
>>>>> Maribor, Slovenia
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anfang der weitergeleiteten Nachricht:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Von: William Weber <william at edis.at>
>>>>>> Betreff: Aw: NCC#2013100726 Complaint against a LIR
>>>>>> Datum: 09. Oktober 2013 13:18:36 MESZ
>>>>>> An: Andrew de la Haye <andrew at ripe.net>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Andrew,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And who verified that these 2 analysts were not bribed... i know guys buying /12s by bribing AFRINIC officials (in fact, the same LIR as this mail is about "bought" space there also, 154.80.0.0/12)  and this isn't unheard in LACNIC/APNIC either, so what tells me RIPE did/does not do the same...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sorry, but this is not really any better now:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This guy "accidentally" sits in Amsterdam as well, not even far from you, being Chinese(!) with barely 3000EUR income reports filled 2012/2013 in the Netherlands for his BVs and his sole trader status and has one of the largest total
>>>>>> allocations in the entire RIPE region? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How can he announce 2(!) *ENTIRE* /15 from an ARIN ASN in Los Angeles while i and others got contacted by RIPE about a measly /24 on an ARIN ASN? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why do his assignments make no sense, look auto generated and never contain any end-user data? Why was this not verified at add-alloc?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How does he use over a million IPs on a 100Mbit uplink to his upstream provider? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This all is still very fishy and not really impressive...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards,
>>>>>> William Weber
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> EDIS GmbH
>>>>>> NOC
>>>>>> Hauptplatz 3/3
>>>>>> 8010 Graz
>>>>>> Austria
>>>>>> Umsatzsteuer-ID: ATU 64124511
>>>>>> Firmenbuch: FN 308697t
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> phone: +43 316 827 500
>>>>>> fax: +43 316 827 500 777
>>>>>> http://www.edis.at
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This message was sent by EDIS GmbH, it is STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL and is solely for the individual or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us at support at edis.at and delete it from your computer. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 08.10.2013 um 11:55 schrieb Andrew de la Haye <andrew at ripe.net>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dear William, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We take your allegations very seriously. As such, your ticket has been escalated to me by Andrea Cima, manager of the RIPE NCC's Registration Services Department. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Before the RIPE NCC reached the last /8 of IPv4 address space, we implemented a temporarily enhanced allocation procedure to ensure a fair, neutral and well-documented IPv4 run-out.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This procedure was communicated to our membership and community at meetings, via the Address Policy Working Group Mailing List, and via our website. You can find the complete description at: 
>>>>>>> https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/204-last_slash_8_NCC_Services.pdf
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Measures were taken to ensure our members' needs were filled on a first-come, first-served basis, and to ensure that we followed due diligence. Each request was evaluated by two IP Resource Analysts. Furthermore, all large requests (/15 PA or /18 PI or more) were rigorously evaluated by Registration Services Management, checked for policy compliance by our Policy Development Officer, and were finally approved by two RIPE NCC Senior Managers. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The IPv4 requests you have listed followed this process completely and, based on the information we received, were entirely justified. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kind regards 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Andrew de la Haye
>>>>>>> Chief Operations Officer
>>>>>>> RIPE NCC 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Singel 258
>>>>>>> 1016 AB  Amsterdam
>>>>>>> the Netherlands
>>>>>>> andrew at ripe.net 
>>>>>>> tel:  +31 20 535 4444
>>>>>>> fax: +31 20 535 4445
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 07.10.2013 um 14:29 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster at ripe.net>:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear William,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As requested I have escalated your complaint to the RIPE NCC Senior
>>>>>> Management.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They will come back to you ASAP.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Andrea Cima
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> RIPE NCC
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:11:37 +0200, William Weber wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Andrea,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So if there is no proof for a bribe you do as it does not exist at all?
>>>>>>> Why did no one tell me this before, i would have come with a suitcase of cash to AMS... Seriously, this statement is worse than what 3rd world dictators state all the time about bribery...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Considering that RIPE members have no access to other RIPE members add-alloc (or any other) forms it is also entirely *impossible* to prove lies in them (hey, how should i do that if i can't read them at all?) - Thus it clearly is your obligation to verify this claims OR provide the accuser with access to a system to verify it himself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is by itself alone VERY suspicious that the single largest allocation for weeks is allocated 8 days before the last /8 is reached to an unknown sole trader without any business.... yes, i think i have enough 'proof' to get this verified by the RIPE, please escalate it to whoever you think is appropriate or i will do so myself today at 00:00 via the RIPE mailing list to ALL members.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards,
>>>>>>> William Weber
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> EDIS GmbH
>>>>>>> NOC
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Am 04.10.2013 um 15:52 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster at ripe.net>:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dear William,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> All allocations are issued based on RIPE policy and documentation that
>>>>>>>> demonstrates the need for those resources. The information provided by
>>>>>>>> members is confidential and cannot be shared with other members. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you have proof that a member has provided false information to the
>>>>>>>> RIPE NCC, please provide us this proof. Based on this we can then
>>>>>>>> start evaluating the claims and take appropriate actions. The same
>>>>>>>> counts for your accusation of a RIPE NCC emloyee having received a
>>>>>>>> bribe, which is a very serious accusation, that we do not take
>>>>>>>> lightly.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Finally it seems there is a misunderstanding about the date on which
>>>>>>>> the RIPE NCC has reached its last /8 policy. The correct date is 14
>>>>>>>> September 2012. Please find the official announcement at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2012-September/001825.html
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Andrea Cima
>>>>>>>> Registration Services Manager
>>>>>>>> RIPE NCC
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:49:32 +0200, William Weber wrote:
>>>>>>>>> x-ncc-regid: at.edisgmbh (and at.<removed>, li.<removed>, li.<removed>, plus representing <removed> and <removed>)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Yes, i have to complain again to evaluate someone....
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> LIR is nl.outsideheaven
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I am 100% sure that the allocation of his netblocks have either used false data in the add-alloc forms, plain lies or bribes (which i see as the most likely) - His company has no trading activity in any country (verified with Dutch and Chinese tax authorities) and nothing that would justify the usage of this amounts of IPv4 space.
>>>>>>>>> His usage of some of them also violates RIPE rules, most are for example not even announced inside the RIPE region but originate from AS35916 (Multacom in Los Angeles, USA) solely.
>>>>>>>>> The assignments while RIPE already reached the last /8 are very questionable as well and overturning a members and board decision.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs    - 2012.09
>>>>>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 5.224.0.0/15  - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09
>>>>>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE
>>>>>>>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /15 5 months AFTER RIPE reached the last /8?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 5.132.0.0/16  - RIPE - 65.534 IPs  - 2012.07
>>>>>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE
>>>>>>>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /16 3 months AFTER RIPE reached the last /8?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04
>>>>>>>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /15 1 month AFTER RIPE reached the last /8?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs  - 2011.04
>>>>>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> William Weber
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> EDIS GmbH
>>>>>>>>> NOC
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> ----
>>>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>>>>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:
>>>>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
>>>>> 
>>>>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>>> ----
>>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>>>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:
>>>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
>>>> 
>>>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>> 
>>> ----
>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:
>>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
>>> 
>>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
> 
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:
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> 
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