[members-discuss] Discuss Charging Scheme 2010

still, a democratic organisation that blackmails people is still
conducting a crime.


-- 

Sven Olaf Kamphuis
CB3ROB DataServices

Phone: +31/87-8747479
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On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Thomas Mangin wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > Once it has been agreed in principal that we RIPE should start
> > charging for an assignment, it is then possible for "the few" who
> > are able to make it to these RIPE jollies^Wmeetings all over Europe
> > and steer the policies then do so to their best interests.
>
> RIPE policies are proposed and voted by the membership, it can not get
> any more democratic than that !
> If you do not like them: VOTE - you do not have to be at the meeting
> to send a proxy, and I do not say this as I am in favor of charing for
> PI space (I am neutral on the point) - I say it as it is how working
> members organisation stay alive.
>
> > We've seen this recently with Nominet in the UK where by they now
> > have 2 tiers of access, and it is no longer a "level playing field"
> > for all members .. you have members, and you have "elite" members
>
> I am in the UK, I am Nominet member as well. I went to Nominet
> Manchester consultation and to the best of my knowledge what you are
> saying is totally wrong. The board has currently no say on pricing, it
> is one of the point under discussion and any change in this direction
> will need to be voted.
>
> Feel free to ask nom-steer for a long discussion on the matter should
> you not want to take my word for it (and you have no reason to do).
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas Mangin
> Technical Director
> --
> Exa Networks Limited - http://www.exa-networks.co.uk/
> Company No. 04922037 - VAT no. 829 1565 09
> 27-29 Mill Field Road, BD16 1PY, UK
> Phone: +44 (0) 845 145 1234 - Fax: +44 (0) 1274 567646
>
>
> > And sadly it is a precedent ... EUR50 this year .... EUR500 the year
> > after ... EUR5000 the year after that ??
> >
> > Once it has been agreed in principal that we RIPE should start
> > charging for an assignment, it is then possible for "the few" who
> > are able to make it to these RIPE jollies^Wmeetings all over Europe
> > and steer the policies then do so to their best interests.
> >
> > We've seen this recently with Nominet in the UK where by they now
> > have 2 tiers of access, and it is no longer a "level playing field"
> > for all members .. you have members, and you have "elite" members
> >
> > I totally agree that RIPE have been needlessly steering everyone
> > into becoming an LIR when they only need a small assignment, and
> > this has lead to a waste of IP allocations .. however my
> > understanding is that this policy isn't designed to limit PA space
> > assignments anyway ... it is designed to make PI harder to obtain,
> > thus steering yet more people into the LIR route (whether they need
> > to be an LIR or not) ...
> >
> > How many LIRs find RIPE referring customers to them because they
> > needed an assignment?  Few I suspect - they all either get told "go
> > find one from this list" or otherwise "become an LIR" and pay the
> > small LIR fee.
> >
> > Maybe its just me only seeing the glass as half full?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > On 19 Jun 2009, at 09:16, Heidrich Attila wrote:
> >
> >> I think you do.
> >>
> >> Consider the domain registration. The registrator is kinda "service
> >> provider" whether it serves any kind of access/hosting/content/DNS or
> >> whatever, and the end user is the only "independent" user of the
> >> named
> >> resource - but not owner.
> >>
> >> I think this is very similar to the PI assignments. In Hungary this
> >> is
> >> normal the regitrstor having a one time enrollment feer, a yearly fee
> >> (well, this contains registration fees for the whole amount), and
> >> per-transaction fees after all new registration, transfers, and
> >> prolongals.
> >>
> >> I do not think EUR50 to be so big problem, but we are an ISP, so
> >> this is
> >> quite normal for us to have the customer pay after allocating
> >> resources
> >> of any kind.
> >>
> >> Attila
> >>
> >> -----Eredeti üzenet-----
> >>
> >>> Not every LIR is an ISP, a lot of them are. If you assign PI to
> >>> somebody
> >>> else, you have a provider/enduser relationship. That makes you a
> >>> service
> >>> provider of some sort. Be it internet, content or hosting.
> >>
> >> no, you dont.
> >>
> >> the customer usually asks to just register ip space and an AS
> >> number which
> >> he then announces himself to transits of -his- choice.
> >>
> >>
> >>
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