[members-discuss] Discuss Charging Scheme 2010

The simple fact of the matter is PI space is not effectively being controlled. 

RIPE need to take control of it so that we don't have the same problems with IPv6 as we do now with IPv4.

PI space has been passed to end users, and because its P.I no one is really maintaining who has what and what it is being used for.

By making LIR's responsible for the relationship with the end user of the P.I a reclamation can be easily achieved - if needed, I don't agree with the charging but I do agree with making whoever requested the P.I space on behalf of a client responsible.


Geraint 

-----Original Message-----
From: members-discuss-admin at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-admin at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Jon Morby
Sent: 19 June 2009 09:29
To: lir at uralttk.ru
Cc: Sven Olaf Kamphuis; Martin List-Petersen; lir at uralttk.ru; Sven Olaf Kamphuis; members-discuss at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Discuss Charging Scheme 2010

And sadly it is a precedent ... EUR50 this year .... EUR500 the year  
after ... EUR5000 the year after that ??

Once it has been agreed in principal that we RIPE should start  
charging for an assignment, it is then possible for "the few" who are  
able to make it to these RIPE jollies^Wmeetings all over Europe and  
steer the policies then do so to their best interests.

We've seen this recently with Nominet in the UK where by they now have  
2 tiers of access, and it is no longer a "level playing field" for all  
members .. you have members, and you have "elite" members

I totally agree that RIPE have been needlessly steering everyone into  
becoming an LIR when they only need a small assignment, and this has  
lead to a waste of IP allocations .. however my understanding is that  
this policy isn't designed to limit PA space assignments anyway ... it  
is designed to make PI harder to obtain, thus steering yet more people  
into the LIR route (whether they need to be an LIR or not) ...

How many LIRs find RIPE referring customers to them because they  
needed an assignment?  Few I suspect - they all either get told "go  
find one from this list" or otherwise "become an LIR" and pay the  
small LIR fee.

Maybe its just me only seeing the glass as half full?

Jon

On 19 Jun 2009, at 09:16, Heidrich Attila wrote:

> I think you do.
>
> Consider the domain registration. The registrator is kinda "service
> provider" whether it serves any kind of access/hosting/content/DNS or
> whatever, and the end user is the only "independent" user of the named
> resource - but not owner.
>
> I think this is very similar to the PI assignments. In Hungary this is
> normal the regitrstor having a one time enrollment feer, a yearly fee
> (well, this contains registration fees for the whole amount), and
> per-transaction fees after all new registration, transfers, and
> prolongals.
>
> I do not think EUR50 to be so big problem, but we are an ISP, so  
> this is
> quite normal for us to have the customer pay after allocating  
> resources
> of any kind.
>
> Attila
>
> -----Eredeti üzenet-----
>
>> Not every LIR is an ISP, a lot of them are. If you assign PI to  
>> somebody
>> else, you have a provider/enduser relationship. That makes you a  
>> service
>> provider of some sort. Be it internet, content or hosting.
>
> no, you dont.
>
> the customer usually asks to just register ip space and an AS number  
> which
> he then announces himself to transits of -his- choice.
>
>
>
> --------------
> Ezen uzenet kizarolag a cimzettjenek szol es olyan bizalmas jellegu
> informaciokat tartalmazhat, amelyek feltarasat jogszabaly vagy  
> szerzodes
> tiltja. Amennyiben a jelen uzenetet On teves kezbesites folytan kapta,
> kerjuk haladektalanul ertesitsen bennunket es az uzenetet annak
> csatolmanyaival egyutt torolje. Amennyiben On nem cimzettje a jelen
> uzenetnek, annak es mellekleteinek elolvasasa, masolasa,  
> tovabbitasa, vagy
> barmely celbol torteno felhasznalasa szigoruan tilos. Megjegyezzuk,  
> hogy az
> e-mail utjan torteno kozlesek nem garantaljak az elkuldott uzenetek
> bizalmas jellegenek es teljessegenek megorzeset, valamint az uzenetek
> megfelelo kezbesiteset. A fentieken tulmenoen, a Hungarian Telephone  
> and
> Cable Corp., annak kapcsolt vallalkozasai, illetve az altaluk  
> megbizott
> harmadik felek a jelen e-mail cimrol kuldott, vagy arra erkezo barmely
> uzenetet ellenorizhetnek, lemasolhatnak, felhasznalhatnak vagy  
> harmadik fel
> reszere tovabbithatnak.
>
> This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain
> confidential information protected from disclosure by law or  
> contract. If
> you have received this message in error, please immediately notify  
> us and
> delete it together with its attachments. If you are not an addressee  
> of
> this message, reading, copying, distribution or use for any purpose  
> of the
> contents of this message or its attachments is strictly forbidden.
> Additionally, please note that communication by email guarantees  
> neither
> the confidentiality nor the completeness or proper receipt of the  
> messages
> sent. Furthermore, Hungarian Telephone and Cable Corp., its  
> affiliates and
> third parties retained by them may monitor, copy, use or forward to  
> third
> parties any outgoing messages from and incoming messages to this email
> address.
>