[members-discuss] Discuss Charging Scheme 2010

> Anyhow, this whole matter was also already raised at the GM.

unfortunately, in the agenda for that specific GM it was presented as if
there would be the option for 3rd parties to register PI space directly
with RIPE, like it used to be the case with internic in the past.

Despite RIPEs newly announced rediculous prices, which come very close to
running an actual LIR, compared to ARIN (arin only charges 100
dollars for direct assigned ip space for example) I have no issues with
that construct and therefore didnt bother to go and vote against it.

it was not mentioned that this would include EXISTING PI space and AS
numbers.

and yeah sure, we have a contract with our customers, verbal agreements
are legally binding, especially if followed by a payment :P
(having a payment relation by itself is already legally binding)

unfortunately for RIPE those agreements only cover the effort to REGISTER
the PI space in the first place, no renewal fees were ever mentioned.

-this cannot be done, its blackmail!-

now the funny thing is that our customers are already caving in and are
willing to sign new contracts BUT they should not.
caving in to blackmail is not a very good idea.

-- 

Sven Olaf Kamphuis
CB3ROB DataServices

Phone: +31/87-8747479
Skype: CB3ROB
MSN:   sven at cb3rob.net
C.V.:  http://www.linkedin.com/in/cb3rob

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On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Martin List-Petersen wrote:

> Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
> >> The product that the customer buys of the LIR should be giving more than
> >> 50 EUR/year revenue, if not, you might not be in business for long.
> >
> > LIRS are NOT isps!
>
>
> Not every LIR is an ISP, a lot of them are. If you assign PI to somebody
> else, you have a provider/enduser relationship. That makes you a service
> provider of some sort. Be it internet, content or hosting.
>
>
> > the "product" bought from a LIR is the registration of IP space, usually
> > at at one-time single payment that covered the increase in the billing
> > score for 2 years if applicable and the administrative work.
> >
> > there are no "services" or "products" a LIR normally sells.
>
>
> You have to have a contractual relationship with the enduser that has PI
> now. You know that, right ?
>
>
> > and there also is no question of "circumventing ripe membership fees"
> > as those only apply to LIRs (that is, people willing to register IP space
> > for others).
>
> Or entities, that don't want to deal with a LIR.
>
>
> > the fact that -most- LIRs are part of an ISP or even some ASPs that fell
> > for ripes jedi-mind-trick and became a LIR themselves, doesnt mean they
> > HAVE to be part of an ISP.
>
> There are very few LIRs, that aren't providing some commercial product.
> And even then 50 EUR/year is compared to the money they probably pay for
> connectivity:
> near to nothing.
>
> Anyhow, this whole matter was also already raised at the GM.
>
> Kind regards,
> Martin List-Petersen
> --
> Airwire - Ag Nascadh Pobail an Iarthair
> http://www.airwire.ie
> Phone: 091-865 968
>
>
>
> X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "ripe.net"
>