[ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
Andrew Stesin stesin at gu.net
Fri Feb 20 15:01:01 CET 1998
On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Sergey A. Mukhin wrote: > >> of LIRs in the fSU countries and it might make sense for RIPE > >> itself to establish its office or RIR for those who agree > A> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > A> "Office" -- no problem, but not "RIR"! How can RIPE > A> establish a RIR without an agreement in the community > A> of the region served? RIR creation should be > A> initiated by the representative community, not RIPE, > A> or am I missing something? > > Quite right. The community does exist ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Would you mind providing a proof of validity for this statement? [... region definition ...] > I would add: regions from fSU countries and to put it > frankly do not see why you do not like such a definition. I don't like the definition above because we live today, looking for tomorrow, and "fSU" is the term from yesterday ("historical"). Who cares today about yesteday' mess? > A> Ok, but who was present but Russia and Ukraine? > A> Russia was "pro", Ukraine was "contra". > A> 1:1 > > It was not necessary to present there physically. The voting system ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What a nice news! ;) If say I wasn't present there physically, what the Decision' text could look like? Note: the text of the projected Decision of Moscow meeting wasn't published electronicaly and open for discussion! > was not Soviet-like. Everybody concerned was noticed and if they > sent no votes "contra", they are "pro". I have no precise data -- > let us ask people who keep those things running. Besides, if > I get things right LIRs were counted, not countries. Neither you nor me didn't get things right, because the documents (both ripe-167 and the Decision) are *very* unclear at this point and who knows where truth might be? > A> ripe-167 is way too unclear for everyone to get its > A> main ideas in a moment. > > Well, it was available for far more time than a moment. ... and nobody cared starting polishing it until Moscow meeting. And nobody even cared to translate it to Russian so far. > A> I'm afraid that ripe-167 is just very unclear and uncertain > A> at this point. > > Maybe. For that case there are its authors able to clarify details. I'd like to see *the* document which is independent of any personalities (who may or may not change their opinions in time) and spoken opinions. [...] > >> If you suppose uniting of > >> everybody but us, *You* said this; I didn't. > >> that sounds a bit odd, does not it? [...] > >> I am afraid I would never understand such a point of view. We declare > >> free choice for all. > > A> Would you mind pointing me at the written document where > A> one can get a clear and certain statement of this? > > Alas, I can not. Hope somebody else can.clarify that matter. Ghmm. > >> I meant just the following effect of the Soviet Union: 6 years are > >> not enough for a new generation who knows English rather than > >> Russia; not enough to get old communications completely changed. > > A> Please leave alone this old crap about English/Russian > A> language. If you are a LIR (and RIR serves LIRs) you > A> ought to know English, point. If you don't know > A> English, you are the customer of a LIR where staff > A> is more knowlegeable. > > A> Agreed? > > No. Ideally everybody which has an Internet connectivity should know > English. *This* statement of yours is plain wrong. Getting connected doesn't nessesary mean one should go learn English; > You ( or I ) may say, `ought' as many times as we'd like -- and > nothing will change. ... but those who serves people' connections *must* know English otherwise how can they perform their job? Please don't mix customer and provider, also LIR isn't just average provider; it's the next level of skills and experience, in general. > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Sergey A. Mukhin | violet at rosnet.net > >> Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ > >> Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 > >> Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE
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