[ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting

> On the other hand there is a tendency to a fast growing number
> of LIRs in the fSU countries and it might make sense for RIPE
> itself to establish its office or RIR for those who agree

AFAIK, RIPE does not have enough priveleges to create another RIR
just by itself without IANA. RIPE Office would be fine as long
as it remains just part of RIPE. But when you say "RIR" this immediately
brings back the issue of choosing which RIR serves which region
(RIR is a _Regional_ IR). Should I repeat once more what problems
arise from this issue?

> to be served there to get load off the main office. ( Not a
> business of mine, I agree. ) Consider the size of fSU region.
> 
> >> Any people decide most ( or all ) of their own problems theirselves.
> 
> A> 	This statement of yours contradicts directly with the
> A> 	approach of ripe-167 document.
> 
> I am afraid you mistreat the approach.

It is difficult to mistreat something not clearly defined, you know...

> A> 	Pretty simple: some people here in Ukraine (me among them)
> A> 	have a strong feeling that some Moscow guys want to "unite"
> A> 	us with them without taking our opinion into attentions.
> 
> I am afraid I would never understand such a point of view. We declare
> free choice for all. Moreover, Ukraine is independent and could you
> point out the way bad Moscow guys can "unite" it ? Again, that is

You are most welcome, my dear ;) Here is how:
1. Install the new RIR with region == FSU
2. Make RIPE beleive that the service is good and the new RIR
   provides sufficient service for all the region.
3. Make RIPE issue RIPE-nnn document which states that from now on all LIRs
   in FSU are served exclusively by the new RIR.
Voila, you are there. When any LIR asks to be served by RIPE,
RIPE will answer: according to RIPE-nnn you should be served by the new RIR.
Not that I'm deadly serious about this scenario, but I do want some
guarantee that it would not happen.

> a union, not a Soviet union;-), everybody has the same rights by
> definition as well as the choice to unite or get out any time.

Let me remind you what Captain Blood once said: "I'm offering you a free choice:
either sign this document or I'll kill you" ;))) Anyone can get out
any time at the price of not being LIR anymore. Is that it? ;)))

> I think Internet community is democratic enough not to allow
> such things anyway ( even if Russia ached to "unite" somebody ).

;)

> 
> Well. Do we need RIPE? Let us all make our own internets deep inside.

We most definitely do need RIPE. (non-joke)

> And it's done ;-) (joke)
> 
> I meant just the following effect of the Soviet Union: 6 years are
> not enough for a new generation who knows English rather than
> Russia; not enough to get old communications completely changed.

What then?

> Sure, I am writing the third time here, as you would like! Now or
> later or never! That is your choice only.
> 
> As for Russia, we have the situation we need to do things. Already.
> And we try it.

OK, go ahead and try. Nobody objects. But please, don't make the assumption
that others will be happy with your solution. (BTW, you made this assumption
also when counting only those "contra", assuming that all others are "pro").
In other words: substitute "Russia" for "CIS" everywhere in RIPE-167
and ask RIPE to allow LIRs not situated in Russia to be served by the
new RIR (RRIR? Russian Regional IR) as an option. This seems to resolve
the problem. Now, is this acceptible for you?

> And why to say the whole idea is wrong? Just because somebody does
> not like it right now ( or even will never like it )?

The idea may be right or wrong. But if some feel that it is wrong,
do you need to pull them with you?

> 
> -- 
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>     Network Administrator		|    http://violet.rosnet.net/
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-- 
Igor Romanenko                                                   @..@
Office: igor at lucky.net, +380-(44)-290-03-48                     (----)
Home:   igor at frog.kiev.ua                                      ( |  | )
http://www.lucky.net/~igor/                                      "  "
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