[ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
Sergey A. Mukhin violet at rosnet.net
Fri Feb 20 14:37:08 CET 1998
>>>>> "I" == Igor Romanenko <igor at office.lucky.net> writes: I> To: violet at rosnet.net (Sergey A. Mukhin) I> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:06:00 +0200 (EET) I> Cc: stesin at gu.net, lir-wg at ripe.net >> On the other hand there is a tendency to a fast growing number >> of LIRs in the fSU countries and it might make sense for RIPE >> itself to establish its office or RIR for those who agree I> AFAIK, RIPE does not have enough priveleges to create another RIR I> just by itself without IANA. RIPE Office would be fine as long I> as it remains just part of RIPE. But when you say "RIR" this immediately I> brings back the issue of choosing which RIR serves which region I> (RIR is a _Regional_ IR). Should I repeat once more what problems I> arise from this issue? >> to be served there to get load off the main office. ( Not a >> business of mine, I agree. ) Consider the size of fSU region. >> >> >> Any people decide most ( or all ) of their own problems theirselves. >> A> This statement of yours contradicts directly with the A> approach of ripe-167 document. >> >> I am afraid you mistreat the approach. I> It is difficult to mistreat something not clearly defined, you know... Exactly. So again -- more details about that business are necessary. AFAIK there is a whole group busy developing details now. Cannot speak for them; however the results (IMHO!) are predictable enough -- they follow from the spirit of the original document. ( OK, "spirit" is not something real but nonetheless obvious enough ). Thus details must follow before anything real is done and they will. A> Pretty simple: some people here in Ukraine (me among them) A> have a strong feeling that some Moscow guys want to "unite" A> us with them without taking our opinion into attentions. >> >> I am afraid I would never understand such a point of view. We declare >> free choice for all. Moreover, Ukraine is independent and could you >> point out the way bad Moscow guys can "unite" it ? Again, that is I> You are most welcome, my dear ;) Here is how: I> 1. Install the new RIR with region == FSU I> 2. Make RIPE beleive that the service is good and the new RIR I> provides sufficient service for all the region. I> 3. Make RIPE issue RIPE-nnn document which states that from now on all LIRs I> in FSU are served exclusively by the new RIR. I> Voila, you are there. When any LIR asks to be served by RIPE, I> RIPE will answer: according to RIPE-nnn you should be served by the new RIR. I> Not that I'm deadly serious about this scenario, but I do want some I> guarantee that it would not happen. >> a union, not a Soviet union;-), everybody has the same rights by >> definition as well as the choice to unite or get out any time. I> Let me remind you what Captain Blood once said: "I'm offering you a free choice: I> either sign this document or I'll kill you" ;))) Anyone can get out I> any time at the price of not being LIR anymore. Is that it? ;))) >> I think Internet community is democratic enough not to allow >> such things anyway ( even if Russia ached to "unite" somebody ). I> ;) I did NOT say "Russia aches". ( It does not. ) I said "if it ached". >> >> Well. Do we need RIPE? Let us all make our own internets deep inside. I> We most definitely do need RIPE. (non-joke) >> And it's done ;-) (joke) >> OK, but maybe if there grew more "us" we might need some more RIPE ? ( half a joke ;-) >> I meant just the following effect of the Soviet Union: 6 years are >> not enough for a new generation who knows English rather than >> Russia; not enough to get old communications completely changed. I> What then? Then? Many in common between peoples ( of course if they have no strong feelings against it as Ukraine has ) BTW, that fact always seemed mysterious to me ;-) >> Sure, I am writing the third time here, as you would like! Now or >> later or never! That is your choice only. >> >> As for Russia, we have the situation we need to do things. Already. >> And we try it. I> OK, go ahead and try. Nobody objects. But please, don't make the assumption Glad to hear it. :-) I> that others will be happy with your solution. (BTW, you made this assumption I> also when counting only those "contra", assuming that all others are "pro"). I> In other words: substitute "Russia" for "CIS" everywhere in RIPE-167 I> and ask RIPE to allow LIRs not situated in Russia to be served by the I> new RIR (RRIR? Russian Regional IR) as an option. This seems to resolve I> the problem. Now, is this acceptible for you? No idea about happiness especially for somebody except my person ;-) There can be just "pro" or "contra" for given statement at given moment. Think speaking about "CIS" instead of "Russia" is a good idea. There is another point -- think if we need to create something it would be much better if it will not be just Russian. No precedences AFAIK for RIR of the only country. I cannot invent the name for it right now ( and hope there are people able doing that much better than me ) but IMHO it should _not_ have "Russian" as a part of its name. And for that matter it makes no "political" difference if it will be established not in Russia at all. That is again the technical matters and if I got Ukrainian representatives at that meeting right, Ukraine either has no wish to arrange it right now or no possibility. Who else could? >> And why to say the whole idea is wrong? Just because somebody does >> not like it right now ( or even will never like it )? I> The idea may be right or wrong. But if some feel that it is wrong, I> do you need to pull them with you? No need for it. And no possibility for that matter. We can just try to convince somebody if they do not refuse flatly ( as you did ). >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Sergey A. Mukhin | violet at rosnet.net >> Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ >> Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 >> Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> I> -- I> Igor Romanenko @..@ I> Office: igor at lucky.net, +380-(44)-290-03-48 (----) I> Home: igor at frog.kiev.ua ( | | ) I> http://www.lucky.net/~igor/ " " I> "On the Internet nobody knows you are a Frog" -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet at rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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