[ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Sergey A. Mukhin wrote:

> S>    I'm wondering why Moscovites try to decide something for other people.
> 
> Well, I am sorry -- that is an obviuos prerogative of Ukrainians ;-)

	Do you really think that this kinds of comments is appropriate
	here?

> I understand pretty well you do not wish be served by Moscow. I cannot
> understand why so much words out of that ? Who insists on it ?

	Authors of ripe-167, and some other Russian authorities
	(as one can observe from the activities around the issue,
	i.e. during RIPE-29 meeting).  Probably you also?

	Mr. Poul-Henning Kamp asked a perfectly reasonable
	question here while asking what's wrong
	with the service provided by RIPE itself: "Lets have a
	show of hands, who couldn't live with this, and why?"
	("this" means the current state of things).

	Let's take his (very careful, BTW) approach.  Ok,
	dear Mr. Sergey A. Mukhin, you (or the *Moscow* company ROSNET
	where you work) rised your hand up, you cannot
	live being served by RIPE directly any more;
	you'd like the whole ex-Roma-Empire (oh sorry, ex-USSR)
	to be served by a new regional registry in Moscow.

	Would you please mind explaining the reasons?

	Who else rises the hand?  Mr. Alexey Platonov (Moscow,
	RosNIIROS), and Mr. Anatoly Kramer (Moscow, ??? -- who
	doesn't even aware of what e-mail is, AFAIK) -- two men,
	two Russian semi-governmental organisations, each wants
	to establish a "big registry" in Moscow, and to extend the scope
	of this RIR to adjucent countries, taking away any choice
	of where to be served from those countries.

	It seems to me that the whole idea is local to Russia (even
	to Moscow) and has nothing to do with community interests (whatever
	it means).  It's some kind of bureacratic intra-Moscow battle...

	My conclusion:

	* I'd like the ripe-167 document in it's current form to
	* be obsoleted.  I'd also like a new edition, say  ripe-167+
	* to be issued, with all the current (very weak) argumentation
	* removed, with solid arguments "pro" added, and with authorship
	* more representative than a single man from Moscow.  Where
	* is (so hyped) community, anyway?

	If this hypothetic ripe-167+ document either doesn't have
	a really solid argumentation, or doesn't have support
	from the *representative* community, -- then who needs
	all this show?  If the scope of interest in a RIR is
	limited to Moscow and Russia -- make it a "Russian National
	Internet Registry" and we Ukrainians just won't care.

> Any people decide most ( or all ) of their own problems theirselves.

	This statement of yours contradicts directly with the
	approach of ripe-167 document.

> But sometimes it is better to unite to get the solutions easier.

	Would you mind explaining the benefits of uniting with you, please.
	(Let's note that this last statement of yours has nothing close
	to ripe-167's content at all).  No offense: friendship and
	union are different things, aren't they?

> If Ukraine does not want - nobody can insist. Why are you SO bothered
> by the fact somebody else wants ?

	Pretty simple: some people here in Ukraine (me among them)
	have a strong feeling that some Moscow guys want to "unite"
	us with them without taking our opinion into attentions.

> Yes, thanks God, USSR is already a history. But even now we still
> can see some consequences of the Roma Empire. And as nobody can
> change history of the past we just have to take into consideration
> the facts no matter if we like them or not.

	The fact is: the Soviet Union is dead.  Do we need another
	union, called "Russian Union", instead?  Oh thanks... maybe
	sometime later, when the benefits of it will be clear
	and obvious, when there will be some interest from *both* sides...
	if there will be any.  But not now, please!

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Sergey A. Mukhin			|    violet at rosnet.net
>     Network Administrator		|    http://violet.rosnet.net/
>     Russian Telecommunications Network	|    Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15
>     Moscow, Russia			|	  + 7 095 755 85 88
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *     If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly.     *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Best regards,
Andrew Stesin

nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE