Re: RE: Re: ENUM trials in general

[Michael Haberler <]

While it is not a fullblown directory, it would be useful to automatically 
collate the pointers to local enum whois directories by automatically 
reading the e164.arpa directory tree, and generate a html page with links 
to the respective whois service for a cc.

This is not only harmless from the system mothering & administration 
perspective, it would mildly "encourage" national trials to have the proper 
SRV RR entries. Those without SRV record wouldnt be listed. Instant 
adoption of SRV records...

That should be good enough to automate the whois information collation. It 
doesnt solve the delegated numbers list. Can we have a second SRV record 
for the numbers directory for those which have one?

maybe a "DIR" record? or is there an applicable ENUM NAPTR record which can 
be abused to provide the directory pointer information?

-Michael


At 12:14 25.02.2003 +0100, Sabine Dolderer/Denic wrote:

Hello Richard,

On 25.02.2003 12:01 "Stastny Richard" <Richard.Stastny@localhost wrote:
>
> Hi Sabine,
>
> So if I understand you correctly, you suggest that RIPE should provide:
>
> 1. WHOIS querying capability (as now for the ccTLD) linked to the national
> WHOIS (if existing)

Yes. I think this should either work already by using the MNT-LOWER and referal mechanism of the RIPE-DB. Another possible mechanism
for the future would be to use the SRV-RR to locate whois services. The mechanism was developed in the CENTR tech-wg. A presentation
of the mechanism you can find on http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-42/presentations/ripe42-dns-srv/sld001.html. There
are already clients available which support this approach.

>
> In ETSI TS 102 172 the following is stated anyway:
>
> "* WHOIS type capability:
> Within ENUM (e164.arpa) a WHOIS type capability SHALL be used to provide
> similar information for delegated full ENUM domain names (associated with
> assigned E.164 numbers) at the ENUM Tier 1 Registry level. This is considered
> as required during the trials and shall be harmonized. Whether all or parts
of
> this information conforms with the elements stated in the note above or is
made
> publicly available is a national matter."
>
>
> 2. A list of delegated numbers:
> Since the WHOIS is useless if you do not have the number, RIPE may provide a
> link to each trial providing the following facility as nic.at is providing
> with the list of Trialparticipants on their enum.nic.at webpage.

There is also the possibility to provide these lists via whois like it was done for domains in the past. But that would generate
another potential spam-ressource

Sabine

>
> best regards
> Richard
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sabine Dolderer/Denic [

]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:10 AM
> > To: Michael Haberler
> > Cc: axel.pawlik@localhost carsten@localhost
> > daniel.karrenberg@localhost enum-trials@localhost
> > marco.bernardi@localhost richard@localhost
> > Subject: Re: Re: ENUM trials in general
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael,
> >
> > On 24.02.2003 20:45 Michael Haberler mah@localhost wrote:
> > >
> > > Carsten,
> > >
> > > I do not understand the outcome of this consultation with the IAB.
> > >
> > > There is a trial. There are fragmented directories underneath the
> > > country code spaces. Running some directory associated with
> > a domain
> > > is a standard practice. There is a need for an interim directory -
> > > even I would like to try interoperability outside my +43 backyard
> > > without plowing through assorted websites. It is useful to exercise
> > > the collation of a larger directory, or take a stab at building a
> > > distributed directory in the first place. Everybody registering at
> > > this stage clearly knows that he cant claim innocence
> > (mostly not even
> > > incompetence :-) on the privacy implications of the current
> > state of
> > > technology. Everywhere the regulators are at least in the loop, or
> > > driving the trials. I for my part (interim 3.4.e164.arpa
> > > registry) cannot observe any lack of visibility and attention by our
> > > regulator, telcos, data protection paranoia usual suspects etc.
> > >
> > > I would like the person shooting down such a useful idea to come a
> > > concrete, workable and timely alternative.
> > >
> > > Can I suggest you RIPE guys give this issue a second try in
> > explaining
> > > the issue to the IAB ?
> >
> > I have some understanding about the position of the IAB and
> > RIPE NCC according to that issue, as a database whith
> > personel information whenever you create it can cause
> > problems with dataprivacy, correctness et al. I would rather
> > suggest that we asked the RIPE NCC to provide the information
> > whether and where each national trial has this information or
> > if you use the mnt-lower-structure and the whois you altready
> > get the information where possible.
> >
> >
> > domain: 9.4.e164.arpa
> > descr: DENIC eG
> > descr: Wiesenhuettenplatz 26
> > descr: D-60329 Frankfurt/Main
> > descr: Germany
> > admin-c: SD24
> > tech-c: OPS1
> > zone-c: OPS1
> > notify: ops@localhost
> > nserver: enum1.denic.de
> > nserver: enum2.denic.de
> > nserver: enum3.denic.de
> > remarks: Website: http://www.denic.de
> > remarks: Email: info@localhost
> > mnt-by: DE-DOM
> > mnt-lower: DE-DOM
> > changed: hostmaster@localhost 20020521
> > source: RIPE
> >
> > Sabine
> >
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > >
> > > -Michael
> > >
> > > ps: I dont fully grasp the rationale for the involvement of
> > the IAB in
> > > such a IMV tactical development support question in the
> > first place.
> > > Define it as trial support and go ahead.
> > >
> > > This might also be the opportunity to show SRV records at
> > work with a
> > > useful job.
> > >
> > >
> > > At 15:32 20.02.2003 +0100, Carsten Schiefner wrote:
> > >
> > > >Richard, Marco -
> > > >
> > > >Richard Shockey wrote:
> > > > >At 09:24 AM 1/12/2003 +0000, Marco Bernardi wrote:
> > > > >> I think running such a directory implies some
> > responsibilities.
> > > > >> We don't want any misuse/abuse. All this must be done in
> > > > >> responsible way and by a responsible organization. It
> > seems to me
> > > > >> that it can be the perfect job for Ripe (Carsten - sorry for
> > > > >> putting you on the
> > > > >> spot...)
> > > > >
> > > > > I have to agree RIPE would be perfect as the
> > administrator of the
> > > > > root .... but I also think this is very very simple and not too
> > > > > much real work
> > > > >
> > > > > the only data collected would be
> > > > >
> > > > > User Name
> > > > > email address
> > > > > e164 number
> > > > >
> > > > > that can periodically generate a text file test
> > participants can
> > > > > use
> > > >
> > > >After considering the issue with IAB - the RIPE NCC is
> > operating the
> > > >Tier0 registry on behalf of the IAB - we came to the
> > conclusion that
> > > >the RIPE NCC shall refrain from offering such an even only
> > temporary
> > > >ENUM directory service to the community, as such a service
> > would be
> > > >better carried out by a different entity to preserve a clear
> > > >understanding of responsibilities in the Internet
> > community. Also the
> > > >effects of such a temporary directory relating to the longer term
> > > >issue of ENUM directories and associated privacy and regulatory
> > > >issues are not fully explored yet and need more consideration.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks for your understanding - best,
> > > >
> > > > -C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Sabine Dolderer
> > DENIC eG
> > Wiesenh�ttenplatz 26
> > D-60329 Frankfurt
> >
> > eMail: Sabine.Dolderer@localhost
> > Fon: +49 69 27235 0
> > Fax: +49 69 27235 235
> >
> >
> >
>
--
Sabine Dolderer
DENIC eG
Wiesenh�ttenplatz 26
D-60329 Frankfurt

eMail: Sabine.Dolderer@localhost
Fon: +49 69 27235 0
Fax: +49 69 27235 235