[eix-wg] RIPE 56: EIX Working Group Minutes
Fearghas McKay fm at st-kilda.org
Wed Jun 11 01:20:51 CEST 2008
Here are the minutes from the Berlin meeting.
Thanks to Susannah and our temporary scribe after lunch.
Corrections / Comments to the list or myself.
Just a reminder that the next meeting in Dubai starts on the Sunday
not Monday, we will post the WG day as soon as it is finalised. If
you have any feedback about clashes to avoid - now would be a good
time to raise them.
Thanks
Fearghas
RIPE 56: EIX Working Group Minutes
Status: Draft
Agenda
=======
Thursday, 8 May. 11.30-12:30
A. Administrative Matters
* Welcome
* Select a scribe: Susannah Gray
* Jabber Monitor: Rumy Kanis (11:00), Mark Dranse (14:00)
* Microphone Etiquette
* Minutes from WG session at RIPE 55
* Finalise agenda
B. IXP Updates
* AMS-IX
* DE-CIX + WORK-IX & ALP-IX
* EQIX
* INEX
* LINX
* LONAP
* NaMeX
* NDIX - Presentation of their new logo
* Netnod
* NIX.CZ
* NYIIX/LAIIX
* VIX
* Overview of South Asian IXPs
C. Surprise Event
D. Euro-IX Update
-----------------------
Thursday, 8 May. 14:00-15:30
E. 40/100GbE IEEEE & Progress Update - Greg Hankins
F. Some IPv6 Observations at AMS-IX - Arien Vijn
H. Results of the Peering Configuration Survey - Greg Hankins
(Force10), Ren Provo (Comcast) & Tom Scholl (AT&T)
Z.. A.O.B.
=====
Thursday, 8 May. 11.30-12:30
----------------------------
Fearghas welcomed the attendees and opened the session.
B. IXP Updates
AMS-IX
Cara Mascini
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Mascini-
AMS-IX_Update.pdf
There were no questions.
DE-CIX + WORK-IX & ALP-IX
Yvonne Hahn and Frank Orlowski
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Hahn-DE-
CIX_IX_Update.pdf
There were no questions.
EQIX
Eric Troyer
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Troyer-
Equinix_Global_Peering_Update.pdf
There were no questions.
INEX
Nick Hilliard
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Hilliard-
INEX_update-WG.pdf
There were no questions.
LONAP
Andy Davidson
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Davidson-
An_update_from_LONAP.pdf
LINX
Mike Hughes
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Hughes-
LINX_News.pdf
There were no questions.
NaMeX
Daniele Arena
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Arena-
NaMeX_Update.pdf
There were no questions.
NDIX - Presentation of their new logo
Remco van Mook
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/van_Mook-
ndix_presentation.pdf
There were no questions.
Netnod
Nurani Nimpuno
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Nimpuno-
RIPE_56_Netnod_Update.pdf
There were no questions.
NIX.CZ
Josef Chomyn
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Chomyn-
NIX.CZ_update.pdf
There were no questions.
NYIIX/LAIIX
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Sugeno-
NYIIX_LAIIX_Updates.pdf
Akio Sugeno
There were no questions.
VIX
Christian Panigl
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Panigl-
VIX_Update.pdf
There were no questions .
Overview of South Asian IXPs
Gaurab Raj Upadhaya
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Upadhaya-
Asia_Pacific_IXPs_Update.pdf
There were no questions.
C. Surprise Event
A survey was distributed and filled in by the attendees.
D. Euro-IX Update
Serge Radovcic
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Radovcic-
Euro-IX_Update.pdf
There were no questions.
Thursday, 8 May. 14:00-15:30
-----------------------------------------
E. 40/100GbE IEEEE & Progress Update
Greg Hankins (Force10)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Hankins-
IEEE_802.3ba_Task_Force_Update.pdf
There were no questions.
F. Some IPv6 Observations at AMS-IX
Arein Vijn (AMS-IX)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/agendas/eix.html
There were no questions.
G. Results of the Peering Configuration Survey
Greg Hankins (Force10)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/agendas/eix.html
An attendee who had seen Greg's presentation at the Global Peering
Forum (GPF) asked if any work had been done to find out if the eBGP
multi-hop slide is actually correct.
Greg responded that the slide the attendee was referring to had been
taken out of the presentation for this event. He explained that the
slide was about how participants preferred to do load balancing and
that the options were link aggregation, eBGP multi-hop, eBGP multi-
path and a few others. He continued that people overwhelmingly chose
eBGP multi-hop. After some discussion, it was concluded that people
didn't actually understand the question.
Nick Hilliard (INEX) said that he had done something with Jumbo
Peering LAN at INEX and found out that people are quite interested in
it until they realise the can of worms that it opens up in terms of
raising MTUs universally on their networks. He continued that you'll
suddenly find yourself blackholing traffic and, because most End User
boxes don't use anything greater than MTU 1500, debugging and
monitoring is not easy. He added that the Jumbo LAN is still there,
there's no one connected to it but that it was an interesting
experiment.
Arein Vijn (AMS-IX) commented on the Jumbo LAN issue. He said that a
few years ago, AMS-IX asked its members about Jumbo frames. They
responded that their customers have 1500 byte frame sizes and so
having a Jumbo LAN would only cause problems.
Greg said that, at the GPF when he first presented this presentation,
he asked if these surveys should be carried out on an annual basis.
He continued that a lot of people thought that it was a good idea and
asked the RIPE Meeting attendees what they thought.
There was general agreement in the room that the survey should be
carried out on an annual basis.
H. Let's do the Time Warp Again
Mike Hughes (Linx)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/agendas/eix.html
Kurtis Lindqvist (Netnod) commented that Netnod also runs NTP servers
although they are operated on a more complex basis than Linx's
servers. Netnod has a set of caesium servers and also a set of
rebidium servers. It also gets a signal from the Swedish national
time scale and that's actually what we end up distributing. This is
good for applications that require you to be traceable to UTC. The
drawback of using GPS, which is why Netnod does not use it, is that
your accuracy is in the hands of someone else. There's well known
techniques for jamming signals or disturbing them.
Mike responded that LINX decided that it did not need to have control
of the time source but did not want to rely on a single time source.
This is why the SHS, the secure hybrid platform, is a good solution
because the German government are in control of one signal, or the
British government are in control of MSF. He added that there's GPS
stuff as well, which is also used by a lot of people, and this gives
a better level of protection than just trusting a single time source
without Linx having to run its own reference.
Kurtis commented that Netnod has been looking into providing higher
accuracy frequency sources for people to clock their transport
networks. Most people do this by using GPS, which again can be
jammed, or they are buying it from somewhere else at a substantial
cost. Netnod can provide a lot higher accuracy than this.
Mike responded that people are using the LINX system to synchronise
sys-logs and to generally clock their networks to a reasonable level
of accuracy but not the sort of level of accuracy that Kurtis mentioned.
I. v6 Numbering Plan @ Netnod
Kurtis Lindqvist (Netnod)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/agendas/eix.html
Arein Vijn (AMS-IX) asked what will happen when there is no IPv4
anymore and what will happen to the allocation scheme, which is based
on IPv4.
Kurtis responded that Netnod will do nothing and that the scheme is
not based on IPv4. He said that the scheme is based on having a
number, not specifically an IPv4 one, at the end. He added that he
might have problems when the last 64-bits run out.
Arein asked why there was no scheme for AS Numbers.
Kurtis responded that they had the IPv4 numbers and wanted to use the
same numbers and that if they had started from scratch, they might
have used AS Numbers. He added that more clever encoding can be done.
Lorenzo Colitti (Google) asked what will be done when Netnod has more
than 256 members.
Kurtis said Netnod does have /23s and so it could be numbered a
little higher. It has not been done yet but it could be but this is
not really an issue. Netnod is currently at 50 members after more
than 10 years in operation. IPV4 space will probably run out before
it becomes an issue.
J. Gaurab Raj Upadaya
[No slides used]
Gaurab talked about IPv6 in exchange points and said that there seems
to be a lot of discussion but no well established processes to do it.
He would like to produce a BCP for exchange point operators and ISPs
for connecting to an IXP. He asked the audience for feedback.
Arein Vijn (AMS-IX) said that he thought that an IXP can do what it
wants. He added that AMS-IX's scheme doesn't have any administration
in it and people can figure out an IPv6 address. He added that, for
router interface configurations, the AMS-IX website has a
configuration guide which is publicly available and has many IPv6
options. He said that he didn't see that there was actually a
problem and asked what problems Gaurab was referring to.
Gaurab said that the AMS-IX guide is very well known in the
community. He added that a lot of exchange point operators are
getting confused about what the best way to deal with IPv6 is.
Arein said that he did not think there was one best way.
Gaurab said that perhaps all the current best practices could be
documented.
Kurtis Lindqvist (Netnod) added that he didn't think there was a
single best way of doing this. Writing guidelines and documenting
what different options there are and the drawbacks of them all would
be a good thing for exchange points to do.
Arein added that he was a bit shocked that this discussion was taking
place now, as AMS-IX already had guidelines in 2001.
Fearghas declared that there was no consensus in the room about
creating the BCP document. Gaurab said he would take the discussion
to the mailing list.
Z. A.O.B
Prizes for the quiz were given out. Fearghas reminded the attendees
that RIPE 57 takes place in Dubai and starts on a Sunday and not
Monday as usual. He advised people to book their flights early and
register for the meeting as soon as possible.
---
End.
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