<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">In addition to echoing Sasha's views
here, I would also like to say that in principle, yes, all
community members should intervene when they see CoC violations. <br>
<br>
However, in my own personal experience attending 20 RIPE Meetings
over the past ten years, I have been groped more times than I'd
like to count, asked for sex more times that I care to recall, and
even at the last meeting, had a well-known and 'visible' community
member make inappropriate sexual innuendos to my face. <br>
<br>
I remember in Madrid, when someone (who had previously been
harassing women in Copenhagen) grabbed my wrist and dragged me off
the dance floor and tried to convince he to leave with him (he
didn't, I knew who he was and told him where to go). I told my
male colleague about it the next day, who was right beside me the
entire time and had no idea what had happened. He was totally
shocked that this kind of stuff happens - which is something I've
heard from a lot of men who I've spoken to over the years.<br>
<br>
I also told my manager what had happened the next day, he shrugged
and replied "Well, what do you want me to do about it?" in front
of colleagues. I quickly learned that the processes we had in
place were woefully inadequate.<br>
<br>
So, no, expecting fellow attendees to intervene is not a solution,
it's an ideal we should hope to aspire to one day. In the
meantime, we need to ensure a safe space for all attendees and
hard consequences for those who threaten that space. <br>
<br>
Amanda<br>
<br>
On 05/06/2019 12:20, Sasha Romijn wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D7457CBB-DA29-4429-8F95-411D79254B8D@mxsasha.eu">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Hello Daniel,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks for your extensive response.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Unless I’ve overlooked it, we did not include a
mention of the proposed</div>
<div class="">CoC response guide in the mail to ripe-list, which
answers some of</div>
<div class="">your questions, and I’ve responded to more things
below.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The most recent draft of the response guide is on:</div>
<div class=""><a
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gaLo4axYDRTpQnhUJyG92EHBmEIkxSDN8Urmy-zn9nQ/edit?usp=sharing"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gaLo4axYDRTpQnhUJyG92EHBmEIkxSDN8Urmy-zn9nQ/edit?usp=sharing</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Instead, I suggest to a call on everyone in
the community to actively<br class="">
intervene when they observe inappropriate behavior and
to help all<br class="">
parties concerned to resolve the situation.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Although this is a good message in general, it is in my
experience</div>
<div>unlikely to have much effect. Speaking up, even if you
are not the</div>
<div>person directly affected by the incident, is a big step.
It always involves</div>
<div>some danger, especially when the person creating harm is
in a position</div>
<div>of power. The bystander effect also comes into play.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>I would definitely be unlikely to speak up, because it’s
usually too risky,</div>
<div>and has too little chance to make a difference.
Especially at a RIPE</div>
<div>meeting right now, due to lack of an effective CoC
process.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Also, “helping all parties to resolve the situation” is
risky language,</div>
<div>as it places a responsibility on the person being harmed
to contribute</div>
<div>to resolving the situation. In some incidents this may be
appropriate,</div>
<div>but in CoC teams I’ve been a part of, a fundamental point
of all the</div>
<div>process is that we place as little burden on the reporter
as possible.</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">I suggest to maintain the current system of
trusted contacts for<br class="">
reporting violations and add that staff and volunteers
such as chairs<br class="">
and PC are also available. Where, by the way, is the
evidence that this<br class="">
is not sufficient? Maybe the trusted contacts can
provide some sort of<br class="">
transparency report to us?<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Well, currently I wouldn’t consider reporting a CoC incident
at a RIPE</div>
<div>meeting, because why would I? None of the people you list
are actually</div>
<div>empowered to take any action, other than offer sympathies.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>And how will these people make decisions? If I make a CoC
report, will</div>
<div>it be discussed by the entire PC, all chairs, and trusted
contacts together?</div>
<div>That is way too many people, and introduces many problems.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>If you empower these people to actually take action, up to
the unusually</div>
<div>rare action of immediate removal from the conference, how
does it solve</div>
<div>the concerns you raise about a CoC team?</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>On a sidenote, this would also involve a requirement for
training all PC</div>
<div>members, WG chairs, and trusted contacts at CoC incident
response.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Further I recommend to develop a response
plan that defines who is<br class="">
responsible to take action in cases where individuals do
not stop<br class="">
inappropriate behavior once it is pointed out to them.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Are you saying that people should always, in every incident,
first have</div>
<div>the behaviour pointed out, then re-violate, before more
serious action</div>
<div>can be taken?</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">These<br class="">
responsibilities do exist today within our governance
structure. They<br class="">
are shared between RIPE, RIPE NCC and third parties such
as the<br class="">
owners/operators of our venues. Maybe this needs to be
clarified and we<br class="">
may need to establish roles within these structures that
are responsible<br class="">
to follow up on any actions.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>I’d argue that the current CoC process has way too many
people kind of</div>
<div>responsible, and therefore in the end nobody responsible.
In the current</div>
<div>situation, nobody has sufficient power, is able to act
with sufficient speed,</div>
<div>provide sufficient confidentiality, and has expertise, to
deal with incidents.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>As an example, I reported a CoC incident about 7 months
ago now, and</div>
<div>have still not received a response other than a number of
apologies for</div>
<div>not sending a response. This is exactly due to the lack
of process and</div>
<div>clear responsibility.</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">But let us not create a new committee whose<br
class="">
sole purpose is to sanction community members without
any process!<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>I think this is partially addressed by the response guide
linked above,</div>
<div>which we should have published along with the CoC
process. Perhaps</div>
<div>this needs amendments. But the new proposal has much more
process</div>
<div>behind it than the current setup.</div>
</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">We should also make it clear that we do not
tolerate any abuse of the<br class="">
code of conduct itself. I realise that can be
interpreted as<br class="">
off-putting. However it is an essential part of such a
code.<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Do you have a suggested wording for this? I have intentionally
avoided</div>
<div>this in the past, because it risks discouraging reports,
and getting</div>
<div>people to report incidents is one of the hardest parts.</div>
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Sasha</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
diversity mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:diversity@ripe.net">diversity@ripe.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</body>
</html>