<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <tt>Hi Brian</tt> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/07/2017 17:58, Brian Nisbet wrote: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:4fe4bbea-9e48-5b30-62b0-5ae1efb42e55@heanet.ie" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Afternoon, On 07/07/2017 16:22, Malcolm Hutty wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Hi Leo, On 07/07/2017 15:16, Leo Vegoda wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I know that there was some pushback against measurements and targets. However, I think it is impossible to make progress unless you measure and have a goal to work towards. As such, I would strongly support a set of diversity measurements based around a number of key criteria: - Age - Gender - National origin and/or country of residence </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> I think your idea of "progress" presumes the answer. If you believe the goal is - as one participant espoused - to increase the level of female participation until 50% of RIPE participants are female (or more?), then measuring progress against this target is likely to help achieve it. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> More than one. It's a great goal. </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">However, if you believe that even having such a target is inappropriate, divisive and (frankly) another form of bigotry, and that the appropriate action from RIPE is to ensure that all participants are welcomed and respected regardless of their sex, then establishing such measurements pushes us down the wrong track. It also diverts attention from what should actually be done. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Well, a) how can espousing that things like the operation of the Internet should involve a relatively even split of humanity be divisive? I don't understand the objection here. But also, we can do more than one thing at a time. We can measure *and* welcome. But equally we should be encouraging and enabling, not just welcoming.</pre> </blockquote> I totally agree with the idea that operation (as well as design and development) of the internet (and other major technology industries) should be relatively evenly split across diverse elements of humanity/society. However, if suitably qualified and experienced people don't exist in the numbers needed to achieve this level of diversity then no amount of measurement, encouragement or welcoming at a RIPE Meeting is going to change much. The only way this can be truly achieved is to start at the level of schools and universities. A diverse group of people need to be educated and trained in these industries. There is no point encouraging people without the knowledge or experience to take up these positions. So perhaps the Diversity Task Force should be adding it's voice to calls within society for better education and training. Which unfortunately will fall on mainly deaf ears in most of the middle east. cheers denis </body> </html>