[diversity] Hosting RIPE85 in Serbia that is trying to cancel EuroPride 2022

Hank,

good suggestions!

I'd like to add an aspect of environmental costs / sustainability 
criteria; here are example from similar communities:


IETF:
https://www.ietf.org/blog/towards-a-net-zero-ietf/

ACM SIGPLAN:
https://www.sigplan.org/Resources/Climate/

Mozilla Community:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Projects/Sustainability/Research



On 31/08/2022 06:58, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> Perhaps RIPE or someone with good data analytical skills can crunch the 
> numbers from previous meetings:
> 
> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/archive 
> <https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/archive>
> 
> First mark which venues are considered low-cost, moderate and expensive 
> (3 categories).
> 
> https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/region_rankings_current.jsp?region=150 
> <https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/region_rankings_current.jsp?region=150>
> 
> Next, determine how many people attended and again mark it is low, 
> moderate and high to determine which venue attracted the most people:
> 
> https://ripe78.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/ 
> <https://ripe78.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/>
> 
> https://ripe84.ripe.net/attendee-list/ 
> <https://ripe84.ripe.net/attendee-list/>
> 
> https://ripe79.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/ 
> <https://ripe79.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/>
> 
> https://ripe77.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/ 
> <https://ripe77.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/>
> 
> etc…
> 
> Lastly, use sites like:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#Central_Europe 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#Central_Europe> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe#Eastern_and_Central_Europe 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe#Eastern_and_Central_Europe>
> 
> along with other factors like visa availability to determine countries 
> that can be considered good/moderate/bad in the realm of inclusiveness.
> 
> Now assign weights to each of the 3 categories and we can then come up 
> with a list of venues that are better suited than others.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hank
> 
> *From:*diversity [mailto:diversity-bounces at ripe.net] *On Behalf Of 
> *Cynthia Revström
> *Sent:* 30 August 2022 18:34
> *To:* Vesna Manojlovic <BECHA at ripe.net>
> *Cc:* diversity at ripe.net
> *Subject:* Re: [diversity] Hosting RIPE85 in Serbia that is trying to 
> cancel EuroPride 2022
> 
> Hi Vesna,
> 
> I agree with you here and we will probably have to kinda balance the 
> pros and cons to various groups.
> 
> There are some countries which imo we should absolutely not host RIPE 
> meetings in, such as those without a functioning democracy and those 
> with governments that are actively hostile towards LGBTQ+ people.
> 
> Serbia is kinda on the edge here, but is certainly far from the worst 
> and might be acceptable.
> 
> One thing that stands out to me though is that from looking at the 
> attendee list, at the time of writing this, not a single person from 
> Serbia has registered so far it seems.[1] (as in where the country is "RS")
> 
> If we can't get a single person from Serbia to register for a RIPE 
> meeting in Serbia then I feel like the downsides of hosting it in Serbia 
> outweigh the benefits as a lot of the benefits go away in my opinion.
> 
> Of course we didn't know this before scheduling it in Serbia but it 
> still makes me think that we should possibly reconsider the pros and 
> cons a bit better for the future.
> 
> Creating a list like Hank suggested might be a good idea to try to 
> evaluate the best options for future meetings.
> 
> Also given how I think a lot of people are paid by their employers to 
> attend and how any location is likely going to be semi-expensive for 
> people who don't live there, I feel like the economic parts should have 
> much less weight than the other factors.
> 
> People not being able to travel because it costs money is sad, but 
> people not being able to travel because they feel unsafe or blocked from 
> entering due to being LGBTQ+ or just being the "wrong" nationality is 
> way worse imo.
> 
> The summary of my take is: We should consider all of these factors but 
> we need to figure out how important they are, and also figure out where 
> the red lines are. (as in what the total deal breakers are that simply 
> can't be accepted regardless of whatever pros there are in other ways)
> 
> [1]: https://ripe85.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/ 
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fripe85.ripe.net%2Fattend%2Fattendee-list%2F&data=05%7C01%7Chank%40mail.iucc.ac.il%7Cb3c32c5829ea407d49df08da8a9d1f87%7C5157b0be66864470892cbf98e43728a4%7C1%7C1%7C637975167127346341%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C5000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=4WgSEKzftKAoRcDcjvaBuOVGudlziBBlW2J3wz%2FVA6A%3D&reserved=0>
> 
> -Cynthia
> 
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2022, 15:28 Vesna Manojlovic, <BECHA at ripe.net 
> <mailto:BECHA at ripe.net>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Sascha,
> 
>     I do feel triggered with this call for a certain "openness",
>     I hope you take this reply in a best possible way!
> 
>     On 28/08/2022 16:45, Sascha Pollok wrote:
>      > The in-person meetings should welcome everybody and not
>      > force them to make those weird compromises.
> 
>     ...
> 
>      > If we want to offer an open meeting, we need to pick the location
>      > accordingly.
> 
>     Theoretically, I agree with you -- but -- some of the locations that
>     are
>     considered "open" are only so to certain groups of people...
> 
>     (e.g. Germany, Holland, Scandinavia... UK!?)
> 
>     ... and there are still many many people for whom these countries are
>     NOT open; people who are disadvantaged by _other_ circumstances:
> 
>     - people who can not afford to travel to North/West Europe, since the
>     hotels & food are too expensive for them
> 
>     &
> 
>     - people from "wrong" countries who can not get a visa
> 
> 
>     ... so if we would host meetings only in those countries, RIPE would be
>     missing out on many contributions.
> 
> 
> 
>     It is a difficult challenge to offer equal opportunities for wide
>     variety of particpation... and I am glad that we are now considering
>     many of the aspects; I am hoping this will lead to better events, and
>     more justice in the world!
> 
> 
>     Vesna
> 
> 
> 
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