[diversity] Options for gender on meeting registration

On 2017-06-03 12:48, denis walker wrote:
> HI Brian
> 
> There are a number of points here that I must take issue with.
> 
> "I've no doubt we're going to get some things wrong"
> You cannot afford to get things wrong with this. In Chechnya gay and
> transgendered people are being murdered. In Russia and most of the
> middle east (where the next RIPE Meeting is to be held), to be
> identified as gay or transgendered also puts your safety at risk. What
> is 'important' is that you don't put anyone's safety at risk.
> 
> I am surprised you think the topic of how this data is collected
> anonymously is just a detail to be passed onto someone else and to
> think about it is considered micro management. This is a core issue.
> What questions you ask are details. This data MUST be collected by a
> third party organisation and never in any way associated with
> identifiable registration data.
> 
> If you don't do it this way the data you collect is meaningless
> anyway. Making it 'opt-in' does not help. Anyone from parts of the
> region where it is dangerous to be identified in this way will not
> simply 'opt-out'. That in itself is a statement. They will opt-in and
> lie. That is what I would do.
> 
> I would like some comment from the RIPE NCC on how they propose to
> collect this sensitive information. And yes I do want technical
> details, not just some vague comment and assurance. I will scrutinize
> the way this is to be done and if I don't consider it safe I will
> continue to object.

Like I said before, we are at the early discussion phase of this and are 
not rushing anything through. We first need to understand what is 
possible to implement in time for RIPE 75 registration and then work 
with legal to determine the best way to collect the data *if SWE 
indicate that there's time to have something in place*. When we know 
more, we'll share more. All I needed to know was the appropriate wording 
of such a question so that SWE could give us an indication of whether 
they could do it or not - the rest of the logistics are still something 
that need to be discussed, researched, etc.

> 
> I object to this being done in a rushed (iterative) way for RIPE 75.
> 
> cheers
> denis
> 
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>
>  TO: diversity at ripe.net
>  SENT: Saturday, 3 June 2017, 10:59
>  SUBJECT: Re: [diversity] Options for gender on meeting registration
> 
> Morning,
> 
> Denis, as you say, it's been a while. In most cases these days in the
> UK
> and Ireland the preferred umbrella term is transgender. Of course
> different people use different terms, but a number of the terms you've
> 
> used below would be considered offensive or, at best, a bit gauche.
> 
> All of that said, we should be focusing on what we can do around
> initial, opt-in, anonymised data collection.
> 
> There is no question that any such information must be separated out
> and
> proper data protection systems must be in place. The details of these
> systems are not really for discussion here, that's for the NCC teams
> to
> implement. They are the experts and we should trust them. We cannot,
> as
> a group, micromanage every aspect of this.
> 
> This is going to be an iterative process and I've no doubt we're going
> 
> to get some things wrong as we work to help the continual improvement
> of
> the RIPE community. However it is important that we do act, in a
> strategic fashion, and not go around and around in some attempt to
> reach
> perfection.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brian
> 
> Brian Nisbet
> Network Operations Manager
> HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
> 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
> +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
> 
> denis walker wrote on 02/06/2017 20:17:
>> Hi Leslie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "RIPE is an international community, and I know that common english
>> terms can vary widely between different areas. In the US, the term
>> 'transvestite' is often used as a slur. Transgendered is the widely
>> accepted nomenclature. I find
>> 
> http://www.transequality.org/issues/resources/transgender-terminology
> [1]
>> to be a good guide for definitions of trans terminology."
>> 
>> 
>> You are right, it is not easy to get terminology right across
> borders.
>> But this list is USA biased and that is not the same as in the UK
> for
>> example. But in either case 'transvestite' is not the same as
>> 'transgendered'. From this list 'transvestite' is synonymous with
>> 'cross-dresser'.
>> 
>> It says, in the explanation for cross-dresser, "The older term
>> "transvestite" is considered derogatory by many in the United
> States.".
>> That is not the case in the UK. Whilst transvestite (trannie or
> tranny)
>> and cross-dresser (CD) are to some extent interchangeable, they are
>> often used in different contexts. In a profile on a personals web
> site
>> you may say "Looking for a CD". But if you went to the gay village
> in
>> Manchester and wanted to find one of the bars where many
> transvestites
>> meet you would ask someone "where is the trannie bar?".
>> 
>> But of course these terms constantly evolve and it is a while since
> I
>> was a regular in Manchester....so it may be all different now :)
>> 
>> cheers
>> denis
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Diversity mailing list
>> Diversity at ripe.net
>> https://mailman.ripe.net/ [2]
>> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] 
> http://www.transequality.org/issues/resources/transgender-terminology
> [2] https://mailman.ripe.net/
> 
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