Dear DB-WG,<div><br><div>Hoping that this email finds you in good health!</div><div><br></div><div>Please find my comments below, inline...<br><br>Le lundi 20 juin 2022, Ronald F. Guilmette via db-wg <<a href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net">db-wg@ripe.net</a>> a écrit :<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">In message <<wbr>CAKvLzuFA0y8mOzPiiy4tHBCRUNUBb<wbr>QgJc-DD54E-S+0TW=<a href="mailto:StiA@mail.gmail.com">StiA@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
denis walker <<a href="mailto:ripedenis@gmail.com">ripedenis@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">> <br>
>> [...]<br>
><br>
>> What gives you or anyone the right to take away a member's rights to have<br>
>> their true and actual mailing address in their own public WHOIS records?<br>
><br>
>Again you simply don't understand the issue. "their true and actual". This<br>
>address is 'defined' in the database documentation as "The postal address<br>
>of a contact related to the organisation". That can be anyone based in any<br>
>location in the world, as Europol have discovered.<br>
<br>
Sounds like a definite problem to me!  So lets fix that.  Let's require<br>
*at least* the REAL name and address of each member to be present in that<br>
member's public WHOIS record.<br>
<br>
Every new member has to submit some identifying documents at the time they<br>
first become members, right?  If it is a  corporation, then a copy of the<br>
formal and legal incorporation document(s) must be submitted as part of the<br>
application process.  If it is person, then either a copy of that person's<br>
passport or some other form of government-issued identification document<br>
must be submitted as part of the new/prospective member's application for<br>
membership, right?  So we take this "real" member name & address info,<br>
copy it off those bona fide documents, and stick the same data into the<br>
member's public-facing WHOIS record.  Is this just, like, too simple,<br>
or what?<br>
<br><br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Hi Ronald,</div><div>Thanks for your email, brother.</div><div><br></div><div>...i agree, you should be a bit fair with Denis :-/</div><div><br></div><div><div>You know, reducing your tone would not, imho, </div><div>imply any loss in the value and strength of your </div><div>arguments at all :-/<br></div></div><div><br></div><div>Having said the above, these [1,2,3,4,5] RIPE Lab </div><div> articles provide, imho, interesting discussions, </div><div>and very useful information, on topic...</div><div>__</div><div>[1]: <<a href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/ad_castle/lessons-learned-from-ripe-when-creating-a-new-community-database-in-a-very-different-field/">https://labs.ripe.net/author/ad_castle/lessons-learned-from-ripe-when-creating-a-new-community-database-in-a-very-different-field/</a>></div><div>[2]: <<a href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/matt_parker/the-assisted-registry-check-let-us-help-you/">https://labs.ripe.net/author/matt_parker/the-assisted-registry-check-let-us-help-you/</a>></div><div>[3]: <<a href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/athina/how-were-implementing-the-gdpr-legal-grounds-for-lawful-personal-data-processing-and-the-ripe-database/">https://labs.ripe.net/author/athina/how-were-implementing-the-gdpr-legal-grounds-for-lawful-personal-data-processing-and-the-ripe-database/</a>></div><div>[4]: <<a href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/denis/review-of-database-consistency-service-dbconstat/">https://labs.ripe.net/author/denis/review-of-database-consistency-service-dbconstat/</a>></div><div>[5]: <<a href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/denis/diff-functionality-in-the-ripe-database/">https://labs.ripe.net/author/denis/diff-functionality-in-the-ripe-database/</a>></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
As I have said, if there are natural person journalists, or activists, or<br>
other folks who have other issues pertaining to lifestyle or whatever, and<br>
who can make at least a prima facia case that they need to have both (a)<br>
number resources AND also (b) privacy of their PII, then allow NCC to<br>
accept their requests to be exempt from publication of their PII on a<br>
case by case basis.  For everybody else however, what you see (in the public<br>
WHOIS) is what you get, i.e. the real names and the real addresses.<br>
<br>
Problem solved!  And everybody's happy.<br>
<br><br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>At least my humble person will be!</div><div><br></div><div>Many thanks for this alternative, i fully support.</div><div><br></div><div>...imho, a solution of a real problem shouldn't be </div><div>implemented, if it removes the ability and solution</div><div>that at least network operators (NO) actually have;</div><div> and which allow them to freely and *privately* </div><div>communicate each other...(home office addresses </div><div>might be considered a distinct concern, though...).</div><div><br></div><div>That kind of solutions would remove available, </div><div>enventually *good*, solutions (new problems) and </div><div>may contribute to more fragmentation within NO's</div><div> community; amongst other possible consequences.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/kranjbar/proposed-improvements-to-dummification-of-personal-data-in-the-ripe-database/#:~:text=It%20has%20been,exposed%20with%20no%20limits">https://labs.ripe.net/author/kranjbar/proposed-improvements-to-dummification-of-personal-data-in-the-ripe-database/#:~:text=It%20has%20been,exposed%20with%20no%20limits</a>.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/kranjbar/proposed-improvements-to-dummification-of-personal-data-in-the-ripe-database/#:~:text=The%20current%20dummification,the%20data%20protection%20rules">https://labs.ripe.net/author/kranjbar/proposed-improvements-to-dummification-of-personal-data-in-the-ripe-database/#:~:text=The%20current%20dummification,the%20data%20protection%20rules</a>.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/kranjbar/proposed-improvements-to-dummification-of-personal-data-in-the-ripe-database/#:~:text=Proposed%20algorithm">https://labs.ripe.net/author/kranjbar/proposed-improvements-to-dummification-of-personal-data-in-the-ripe-database/#:~:text=Proposed%20algorithm</a>:,the%20objects%20below:</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/alexband/improving-the-management-of-ripe-database-objects-with-joint-responsibility/#:~:text=In%20the%20future,who%20query%20it">https://labs.ripe.net/author/alexband/improving-the-management-of-ripe-database-objects-with-joint-responsibility/#:~:text=In%20the%20future,who%20query%20it</a>.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The only people who could be against this are people intent on committing<br>
fraud or some other kind of nefarious skulduggery on the Internet WHILE<br>
USING THEIR ASSIGNED NUMBER RESOURCES.<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Ronald...this is not what drove my support to your</div><div> proposed alternative :'-(</div><div><br></div><div>...and as said, above, imho you absolutely not need</div><div> to use that kind of language to be heard, brother.</div><div><br></div><div>Remain blessed, y'all!</div><div><br></div><div>Shalom,</div><div>--sb.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
>> So now, why don't you re-submit this proposal and instead propose that *all*<br>
>> mailing address information, including even the country name, be redacted<br>
>> from the data base for *all* members?<br>
><br>
>It will be optional.<br>
<br>
Wait... WHAT???<br>
<br>
Could you please repeat that?  I want to make sure that even the people way<br>
in the back heard that.<br>
<br>
So your -actual- proposal is to make *all* WHOIS information for *all* classes<br>
of RIPE members "optional"???<br>
<br>
Take your time.  If you misspoke, then by all means, please rephrase so as<br>
clarify what you really meant to say.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
rfg<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>[...]</blockquote></div></div><br><br>-- <br><p>Best Regards !<br>__<br>baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<<a href="https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure">https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure</a>><br>Subscribe to Mailing List: <<a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br>__<br>#‎LASAINTEBIBLE‬|#‎Romains15‬:33«Que LE ‪#‎DIEU‬ de ‪#‎Paix‬ soit avec vous tous! ‪#‎Amen‬!»<br>‪#‎MaPrière‬ est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement‬<br>«Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)<br><br></p>